ACE A-350 dyno results - Did it deliver?

[Funk]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

I think this header is for people who A) aren't interested in FI for various reasons, or B) are interested in supercharging down the road and want to optimize at no expense spared. Also keep in mind that purchasing/shipping/installing/tuning/running someone's used supercharger kit costs significantly more than $1700 plus an extra 500-600.

Well that is correct it would be more but if you are the person installing the kit most of the things you have to worry about is tuning which a tune runs about 400 bucks i mean you make a point understandable

[Azzudien]

Originally Posted by Funk

That’s to much in my opinion for a header lol for that 1700 I’d rather save an extra 500 to 600 more and get someone’s used supercharger kit honestly and get way more power then a header that costs that much .

You miss the point of this setup as it really is not about power. The reason I purchased is:
1. I am fortunate in life and had the money for it
2. I never plan to FI this car.
3. I wanted a smoother power delivery, which on the track helps tremendously powering out of corner. I have a goal of taking the left hander at LimeRock in 4th gear. I think I can do that in 4500rpm range, but the previous torque dip and resulting power jump would kick out the rear.
4. Reliability, I am done at this point on power/engine mods other than finishing installing my oil cooler.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Funk

Well that is correct it would be more but if you are the person installing the kit most of the things you have to worry about is tuning which a tune runs about 400 bucks i mean you make a point understandable

Yup I get it, bang for the buck, but a few things:

Caveat #1 - most FI headaches/catastrophes are install error, so make sure you know what you're doing, and know the quirks of your specific kit, they all have their own things to deal with

Caveat #2 - supplemental cooling is a good idea, depending on your climate, how hard you drive, and how much power you're making

Caveat #3 - with FI you're pushing the motor way past its design tolerances. Some motors have less defects than others, and likely all of them will be fine on stockish power, or even with NA bolt on mods. Double your power with FI, these defects will rise to the surface. Motor A will last for another 100k miles. Motor B will throw a rod in 2 weeks after going FI. Either roll the dice or budget for a motor rebuild in the future (header mods don't pose as much of a risk in this area).

Caveat #4 - used kit, potentially missing parts, wear on the kit from heat and mileage, no coverage if expensive things fail (like Rotrex units, etc.)

That's all I'm saying - you can go budget if you have to, but the risk of headaches is much higher, you may end up loathing the day you installed the kit, and eventually just hating your car if you cut corners.

For my uses I agree with you on the expense though - ACE is generally regarded as the best design, but it's quite expensive. I bought a used piece for $400 that completely changes how my car drives for the better.

[nikitopo]

A positive displacement supercharger will add power, but it 'll also increase the weight close to the range of 2990lbs. It depends if you want to have a fatty FI car or a lightweight NA car with similar power to weight ratio. Having said that, it is not as simple as swapping an exhaust manifold. The latter is only a small part of the equation. Personally, I would go always with the NA option since there are other advantages as less strain on certain parts and better handling characteristics.

[Lantanafrs2]

I think it would be more expensive to match power to weight ratio of sc car by lightening a na car.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

I think it would be more expensive to match power to weight ratio of sc car by lightening a na car.

Yes it is more expensive and not always optimal for a daily driver.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

A positive displacement supercharger will add power, but it 'll also increase the weight close to the range of 2990lbs. It depends if you want to have a fatty FI car or a lightweight NA car with similar power to weight ratio. Having said that, it is not as simple as swapping an exhaust manifold. The latter is only a small part of the equation. Personally, I would go always with the NA option since there are other advantages as less strain on certain parts and better handling characteristics.

260 whp is the entry level power of a supercharged twin with 91 octane.

2800 lbs is the stock weight

2800/260 = 10.77 lbs/whp for a supercharger with 91 octane

200 whp is the highest NA with 91 octane around. It was CSGMike's car with ACE ~ 195whp. But lets call it 200 for your benefit.

200 whp * 10.77 lbs/whp = 2153 lbs required for the same ratio of a supercharged twin.

Show me a twin at this curb weight suitable for daily driving. There is only one on this forum which is close to 2200 lbs. And it is completely stripped out with just one seat in it and it doesn't count.

It is not possible to bring an NA car to the same power-to-weght ratio of a supercharged car. Yet again, you don't know what you are talking about.

[SuperTom]

For Justin I realize you are setup for autocross but did you happen to do any 0-60 type comparisons? It would be interesting to see how much that boost in the middle of the power band would help real world times

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

A positive displacement supercharger will add power, but it 'll also increase the weight close to the range of 2990lbs. It depends if you want to have a fatty FI car or a lightweight NA car with similar power to weight ratio. Having said that, it is not as simple as swapping an exhaust manifold. The latter is only a small part of the equation. Personally, I would go always with the NA option since there are other advantages as less strain on certain parts and better handling characteristics.

An AT FR-S is 2,800lbs. MT less. Where is the extra 190lbs coming from?

[churchx]

Driver.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by churchx

Driver.

I don't think so. It doesn't read that way to me, church.

A positive displacement supercharger will add power, but it 'll also increase the weight close to the range of 2990lbs

[justinco]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

For Justin I realize you are setup for autocross but did you happen to do any 0-60 type comparisons? It would be interesting to see how much that boost in the middle of the power band would help real world times

Unfortunately I did not. Looking back, I wish I would have.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

An AT FR-S is 2,800lbs. MT less. Where is the extra 190lbs coming from?

Originally Posted by new2subaru

I don't think so. It doesn't read that way to me, church.

A positive displacement supercharger will add power, but it 'll also increase the weight close to the range of 2990lbs

A supercharger weights let's say 65lbs, but you also need supported modifications. Bigger wheels and tires, bigger brakes. Maybe the 2990lbs weight was too much, but you can easily reach the 2900+ lbs area.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

A supercharger weights let's say 65lbs, but you also need supported modifications. Bigger wheels and tires, bigger brakes. Maybe the 2990lbs weight was too much, but you can easily reach the 2900+ lbs area.

Stock wheels are about 20.7lbs
My Rays 57DR's 17X9 +38 come in at 20.2

Not sure on tires but I doubt my 245 RS3's are more then a pound heavier then stock.

Front Brakes
31.2lbs - OEM (Source)
21.0lbs - AP Sprint kit (Source)

I am on the ST kit which is about 3 lbs heavier per side then the AP kit.