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Old 09-03-2015, 05:36 PM   #197
Jaden
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How is that?

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Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr. View Post
Why not clutch the pulley and add a bypass. That beast is robbing you of tons of valuable powers at the top end. My estimates are around 31% loss when the blower is past its range.

It's a positive displacement. with the lower pulley that compound boost would dictate, the supercharger should be well within it's efficiency range even at the upper rpm range. That's the beauty of compound boost, the only thing that becomes a restriction is the air flow capability of the first FI system. You need to have a primary FI that provides enough TOTAL air flow for the power you are wanting at the boost levels that THAT specific device will be running at. For instance, say you're going to be running a pos. disp. S/C as the secondary and a turbo as the primary.

The S/C is running at a max of 9 psi and you want to run total boost at 30 psi. So you would be running the turbo at between 15-12 psi.

Now notice that I listed that backwards? That's because if your boost controller for your turbo is going off of manifold pressure, the turbo will be running higher boost while the S/C is at lower RPMs making lower boost and then the turbo will be making lower boost at higher rpms when the S/C is providing more boost. You will get maximum boost for a greater range of rpm as well compared to a non compound boost setup.

So you would want to look at the compressor maps for the turbos and find the amount of airflow that you want at that 12 psi range to determine which turbo you want to run.

Again for example, you want to get 550 hp, you're going to want a turbo that provides about 50-60 lbs/minute at 12 psi.

The airflow of the S/C doesn't even come into play. It's pos. displacement so it will take whatever air is coming into it and compress it at a specific ratio.

Jaden

Last edited by Jaden; 06-16-2016 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 07-25-2016, 11:48 AM   #198
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Not sure if this has been posted anywhere but it looks like they recently (updates this month) dropped a VR38 built by HKS into this car and ditched the twincharger FA20 setup.

http://www.streetfx.com.au/streetfx-...35-gtr-engine/

I recently bought myself a 2013 BRZ and have dreamed of an insane twincharger setup that works consistently and it looked like this was the most promising I have found... Sad to see that they ditched it, though this is an insane swap itself.

Anybody know of any other successful twincharger setups (outside of the other mentioned in this thread)? I have also read about "Project 86" which is also based out of Australia but it appears that they are running a tandem supercharger/turbocharger as opposed to a true twincharged system.
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Old 07-25-2016, 12:26 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by the_one_mike View Post
Not sure if this has been posted anywhere but it looks like they recently (updates this month) dropped a VR38 built by HKS into this car and ditched the twincharger FA20 setup.

http://www.streetfx.com.au/streetfx-...35-gtr-engine/

I recently bought myself a 2013 BRZ and have dreamed of an insane twincharger setup that works consistently and it looked like this was the most promising I have found... Sad to see that they ditched it, though this is an insane swap itself.

Anybody know of any other successful twincharger setups (outside of the other mentioned in this thread)? I have also read about "Project 86" which is also based out of Australia but it appears that they are running a tandem supercharger/turbocharger as opposed to a true twincharged system.
Something like this? Not sure what happened to this build though..
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Old 07-26-2016, 08:33 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by the_one_mike View Post
Not sure if this has been posted anywhere but it looks like they recently (updates this month) dropped a VR38 built by HKS into this car and ditched the twincharger FA20 setup.

http://www.streetfx.com.au/streetfx-...35-gtr-engine/

I recently bought myself a 2013 BRZ and have dreamed of an insane twincharger setup that works consistently and it looked like this was the most promising I have found... Sad to see that they ditched it, though this is an insane swap itself.

Anybody know of any other successful twincharger setups (outside of the other mentioned in this thread)? I have also read about "Project 86" which is also based out of Australia but it appears that they are running a tandem supercharger/turbocharger as opposed to a true twincharged system.
Yeah I saw that on the "what did you do to your frs" thread but I thought it was just a photoshop render. Dang
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:36 AM   #201
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Yeah I saw that on the "what did you do to your frs" thread but I thought it was just a photoshop render. Dang
No sir, no photoshop :P

And yes, we ditched the twincharge.

We just werent going to be able to get the power figures we wanted from it reliably. We hope to get somewhere in the vicinity of 1hp per kg from this setup.
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Old 08-05-2016, 11:44 AM   #202
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ok can you atleast....

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No sir, no photoshop :P

And yes, we ditched the twincharge.

We just werent going to be able to get the power figures we wanted from it reliably. We hope to get somewhere in the vicinity of 1hp per kg from this setup.
At least tell us what you DID get out of it?

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Old 08-07-2016, 10:28 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
At least tell us what you DID get out of it?

Jaden
best we saw out of the FA20 was 545whp.

We had HG probs and ended up deciding to press on with the VR38 idea as we wanted to get bulk hp, and the FA20 wasn't proving to be worth the amount of time and money. At least the VR38 is still unique and well capable of our goals.
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Old 08-07-2016, 06:01 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF View Post
best we saw out of the FA20 was 545whp.

We had HG probs and ended up deciding to press on with the VR38 idea as we wanted to get bulk hp, and the FA20 wasn't proving to be worth the amount of time and money. At least the VR38 is still unique and well capable of our goals.
Is the other twin charge project you were associated with still running? Or has that been dismantled as well?
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Old 08-08-2016, 02:16 AM   #205
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Is the other twin charge project you were associated with still running? Or has that been dismantled as well?
this was the only one we had any involvement in.
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Old 08-08-2016, 08:15 AM   #206
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Quote:
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this was the only one we had any involvement in.
Ahhh okay, I thought you were also part of the "Jet86" build as well.

Regardless, I appreciate all the effort that your team put into trying to make this successful. Maybe my dreams aren't so realistic... That is why they call them dreams.
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Old 08-08-2016, 02:40 PM   #207
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If you were using the same turbo..

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Originally Posted by WTF View Post
best we saw out of the FA20 was 545whp.

We had HG probs and ended up deciding to press on with the VR38 idea as we wanted to get bulk hp, and the FA20 wasn't proving to be worth the amount of time and money. At least the VR38 is still unique and well capable of our goals.
I'm not surprised that's all you saw out of it if you were using the same turbo as the jet86 project. He was using a gtx3076R...

You would need a turbo capable of 60-70 lbs a minute at 10 psi to get the most out of that setup, a 3076R is going to be air starved at those total boost levels.

Jaden


An FA20 should be capable of 750hp at 35 psi of boost, but in a twin charge config, you need a turbo capable of 75-80 lbs/minute airflow at 13-15 psi to do it.
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Old 08-09-2016, 04:03 AM   #208
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Quote:
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Is the other twin charge project you were associated with still running? Or has that been dismantled as well?
Quote:
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this was the only one we had any involvement in.
I always thought there were two WTF86s running around. I kept seeing pics of one with VIC plates and another with QLD plates (one saying WTF 86 and another with WTF 086) as well as different stickers on them. Oh well
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:59 PM   #209
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Whenever anyone talks about compound boost...

Whenever ANYONE talks about compound boost they make the true, yet erroneous statement that they can make more power on turbo alone...

That just simply isn't true. You can't make any more power on turbo alone. You simply can make more power on THAT specific turbo alone and that's because you are restricted by the air flow of the primary (read, pulling from atmosphere) FI system.

You need a larger turbo with a compound boost system than you would from a stand alone turbo. That's the only difference..Now the benefits...

If you are doing it with a pos. displacement S/C as the secondary, you get a more linear throttle response, reduced lag and quicker spool of the turbo.

Because of this, having to use a larger turbo to get the same max power actually isn't that big of a deal.

Your torque curve will be monstrous and the spool characteristics of even a large turbo will be insane when sized right...

The key thing though is that the turbo HAS to be sized RIGHT...

You need to be aware of what boost level the turbo will be running at and make sure it has the air flow to support the power you want.

I absolutely PROMISE you that had they used a bigger turbo they would've had the power that they wanted. Would it have spooled fully by 2800 like they were getting? Probably not, but they would've likely spooled it up by 3500 if they sized it right and you have to remember that the S/C was probably providing 9-10 psi of boost by about 1800 rpm already anyways.

A compound boost setup done right is amazing on low displacement engines, unfortunately, few people know how to do them right.

Will a vr38 and a twin turbo do as much for less? Probably...and I don't blame him for switching, but I'd still love to see a compound boost setup done right on an FA20...

Jaden
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:20 PM   #210
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Whenever ANYONE talks about compound boost they make the true, yet erroneous statement that they can make more power on turbo alone...
Not a jab, I'm genuinely curious as to what your background/resources are in this area.
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