Frs vs s2000

[ayau]

you guys are tempting @iLuveKetchup to sell his s2000 for a brz lol

[MY13FRS]

Thought the FRS is my S2000 replacement. Sadly it donest come close. The only thing the FRS has over the S2k is the backseats.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by MY13FRS

Thought the FRS is my S2000 replacement. Sadly it donest come close. The only thing the FRS has over the S2k is the backseats.

Everyone is different. I myself would never go back to an S2000. The BRZ is the better car for me (for some of the reasons stated in this thread).

[MattZ28]

I hadn't driven my S2000 all that much in the past few days, but taking it out for a spin tonight definitely reaffirmed the notion that the FRS/BRZ is nowhere near as fun in a straight line. Now it's a matter of what's more important for me, fun or practicality? It would be nice to have backseats even if they are useless, along with a decent sized trunk.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Out of context!

But the Cd has been published! 0.38 vs 0.27.

Additionally, the s2k makes substantial rear lift....

Jacked a picture from Evasive/Maxrev... courtesy of Voltex.

let me preface my post and say that i'm not an engineer by any means. i'm simply a car enthusiast.

is the coefficient of drag (cd) a good number to use when evaluating a car's overall aero efficiency?

does it take into account downforce and lift?

for example, the s2k cr has a higher cd, but due to the cr bumper/wing, it may create more downforce than the brz.

at the same time, the s2k may generate more lift and a wing is needed to generate downforce to create cornering stability.

i'm just not sure if a cd is a good indicator of a car's overall aero efficiency. it seems more like a marketing term to me.

just trying to spark up an intelligent discussion.

[CSG Mike]

The s2k cr actually has a lower (unpublished, but from reliable sources) Cd. Lift and drag are directly related to Cd, but not linearly. CdA is a better measurement for comparison, but frontal area is rarely published.

This is why our BRZ can pull on my s2k at 100mph in a straight line, even with a 60hp deficiency.

The lift difference is so drastic, even vs my CR, that its plainly obvious in high speed sweepers, even to passengers. Anecdotal, yes, but pretty clear cut.

[Captain Insano]

OK - gonna start this post with following: I'm not saying the S2000 is a bad car. Contraire, I actually really like S2000s alot. I would own one if I had the money and garage space for a weekend only track car.

BUT

This thread is like classic case of denial.... And I'm not talking about the FRS/BRZ owners. CSG Mike posts meaningful info over and over about power band, coefficient of drag, rear end lift, and then it isn't good enough for some reason to all the S2000 lovers.

On the other hand, I see alot of comparo threads in which FRS/BRZ owners definitely are in denial, so I guess this is a tendency when you own or really love a car and it makes it harder objectively look at data/facts.

Please don't get angry at this post, just calling out what I see in the thread.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Captain Insano

OK - gonna start this post with following: I'm not saying the S2000 is a bad car. Contraire, I actually really like S2000s alot. I would own one if I had the money and garage space for a weekend only track car.

BUT

This thread is like classic case of denial.... And I'm not talking about the FRS/BRZ owners. CSG Mike posts meaningful info over and over about power band, coefficient of drag, rear end lift, and then it isn't good enough for some reason to all the S2000 lovers.

On the other hand, I see alot of comparo threads in which FRS/BRZ owners definitely are in denial, so I guess this is a tendency when you own or really love a car and it makes it harder objectively look at data/facts.

While I agree with the concept of what you are saying, some owners will approach this from different angles.

There are tons of S2K specific events, so those guys who like that kind of stuff enjoy owning their S2K.

There are guys who just care about the street where the S2K's gearing and power (and maybe top down aspect) are more fun.

There are guys who track these cars heavily, and I think it's that group that honestly will prefer the FRS/BRZ. I agree with Mike's observations, other track friends don't. :shrug:

The S2000 is one of the cars I have never missed for a second ever since I sold it. I thought about a CR to track if the BRZ wasn't as I hoped it would be though.

[Captain Insano]

Oh actually I totally agree with what you are saying. I am taking CSG Mike's posts purely from a "tracking the car" perspective. And the FRS/BRZ sounds like it's pretty comparable or in some ways better than an S2000 on a road course with a few simple mods on both (good tires and coilovers) equally done to "even the playing field" for both cars so to speak.

On the street, yes things are always alot more subjective and really straightline speed seems to give people more enjoyment (on average, definitely not for everybody) on a street car in most cases. For that and rowing the gears in the high revs, the S2000 might be more enjoyable for enthusiasts, but loses in the practicality department. Pros/cons to both vehicles on the street.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Captain Insano

OK - gonna start this post with following: I'm not saying the S2000 is a bad car. Contraire, I actually really like S2000s alot. I would own one if I had the money and garage space for a weekend only track car.

BUT

This thread is like classic case of denial.... And I'm not talking about the FRS/BRZ owners. CSG Mike posts meaningful info over and over about power band, coefficient of drag, rear end lift, and then it isn't good enough for some reason to all the S2000 lovers.

On the other hand, I see alot of comparo threads in which FRS/BRZ owners definitely are in denial, so I guess this is a tendency when you own or really love a car and it makes it harder objectively look at data/facts.

Please don't get angry at this post, just calling out what I see in the thread.

but CSG Mike is a sponsored BRZ driver. there might be some conflict of interest going on.

[Captain Insano]

Originally Posted by ayau

but CSG Mike is a sponsored BRZ driver. there might be some conflict of interest going on.

Um, he tracks both a S2000 CR and a BRZ. Or at least it sounds like it one of his earlier posts.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

While I agree with the concept of what you are saying, some owners will approach this from different angles.

There are tons of S2K specific events, so those guys who like that kind of stuff enjoy owning their S2K.

There are guys who just care about the street where the S2K's gearing and power (and maybe top down aspect) are more fun.

There are guys who track these cars heavily, and I think it's that group that honestly will prefer the FRS/BRZ. I agree with Mike's observations, other track friends don't. :shrug:

The S2000 is one of the cars I have never missed for a second ever since I sold it. I thought about a CR to track if the BRZ wasn't as I hoped it would be though.

i'm curious what your thoughts are on the s2k cr vs the brz. does it pretty much mirror CSG Mike's?

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Captain Insano

Um, he tracks both a S2000 CR and a BRZ. Or at least it sounds like it one of his earlier posts.

the CR is his personal car, and the BRZ is sponsored.

[iLuveKetchup]

That's it!!! I'm shipping the track car to Cali. CSG Mike vs ketchup. I want to see what this aero business is about. lol j/k (but am thinking of shipping to Cali)

BTW, just came from Subaru dealership. There was a limited in stock in the color I want. Hmmm tempting....