Why the Toyota 86 is a Great Car.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Wepeel

The stock Michelins (summer tires) are actually quite good - not as fast as the extreme performance summers but still very good.

The stock Bridgestones (all-seasons) are horrible. I had a chance to sample them because I bought takeoffs with the Bridgestones. Now this is a bad tire.

Yeah agree. I was just posting yesterday in another thread where there was a lot of disagreement about how good the "stock tires" were.

It gets confusing because there are really two stock tires: Primacys and Turanzas. The summer Primacys are actually decent and come close to MPSS in overall peak grip at the track (as tested by Orthojoe), whereas the all-season Turanzas are nowhere near that level. So I think that's at least part of the confusion/disagreement.

I can also confirm the Turanzas are crap at autox. Only good if you're trying to go sideways or enjoy feathering the throttle everywhere.

[Silver Ignition]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yeah agree. I was just posting yesterday in another thread where there was a lot of disagreement about how good the "stock tires" were.

It gets confusing because there are really two stock tires: Primacys and Turanzas. The summer Primacys are actually decent and come close to MPSS in overall peak grip at the track (as tested by Orthojoe), whereas the all-season Turanzas are nowhere near that level. So I think that's at least part of the confusion/disagreement.

I can also confirm the Turanzas are crap at autox. Only good if you're trying to go sideways or enjoy feathering the throttle everywhere.

I ran the Primacys at my last AutoX and they weren't fantastic. I pushed them hard, don't get me wrong, but there was no point during the lap that I felt like the car was connected to the ground...understeer, oversteer, losing traction on braking and acceleration...upgrading soon

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

I ran the Primacys at my last AutoX and they weren't fantastic. I pushed them hard, don't get me wrong, but there was no point during the lap that I felt like the car was connected to the ground...understeer, oversteer, losing traction on braking and acceleration...upgrading soon

I don't think anybody is saying they are fantastic, just that they are very underrated especially with how journalists ran with the 'prius tires' commentary because Audi A4 tires doesn't sound as inflammatory.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

I ran the Primacys at my last AutoX and they weren't fantastic. I pushed them hard, don't get me wrong, but there was no point during the lap that I felt like the car was connected to the ground...understeer, oversteer, losing traction on braking and acceleration...upgrading soon

For the track and autocross, I really enjoyed the difference changing from all-season Turanzas to summer Sumitomo HTR ZIII. I feel like the Sumitomos are slippery enough where you can feel the rear end slide if you get on the throttle early or have poor technique, but are sticky enough where you don't feel like you're constantly babying the throttle.

Next up for me are 235 width NT05s for the heat tolerance. It's possible these will put me into the "too much grip" category, but the Sumitomos have the tendancy to get greasy partway through a 25-min session. I'm hoping the extra width and more track-focused nature of the Nittos will allow them to stay fresh longer into track sessions.

[FRSupra]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Some came with stock summer Michelin Primacy's. Others came with all-season Bridgestone Turanza EL400-02's, as a no-charge option.

It appears most of the cars with all-seasons were sold in the colder states.

This is correct, however I also think the at current weather season also affected the rollout in some states.

Originally Posted by regal

If you live in an area that is flat and straight, buying this car is a mistake IMHO. I too live in PA but if I still lived in the flat midwest it would have been WRX all the way. This car is a great drivers car but the engine is a dog. Its an NA with more lag than a 70' turbo due to the torque dip. The FA20 will not be used in any other cars, its a one-off mistake . Everything else about the car is great, I blame Tada for this grave mistake that kept this from being a world class car.

This is a bogus comment. The FA20 has already been carried over into the forester XT. And as far as the torque dip, it adds character to the car. You have to work for the power, to drive with the torque dip in mind will allow you to become a better driver for this car.

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I can also confirm the Turanzas are crap at autox. Only good if you're trying to go sideways or enjoy feathering the throttle everywhere.

100% Correct.

[regal]

Originally Posted by FRSupra

This is correct, however I also think the at current weather season also affected the rollout in some states.



This is a bogus comment. The FA20 has already been carried over into the forester XT. And as far as the torque dip, it adds character to the car. You have to work for the power, to drive with the torque dip in mind will allow you to become a better driver for this car.



100% Correct.

The FA20 has not been carried over to ANYTHING. Those cars are using the FA20T, witch is a COMPLETELY different engine. The only thing the same is the crank. The heads are different as are the pistons and of course the DI is completely different (no crickets.) Finally they have factory tuned turbos as this car should have.




You guys really should read this thread from some of the pioneers of this forum:


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ferrerid=13150




And despite the engine this is a GREAT CAR !

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by regal

The FA20 has not been carried over to ANYTHING. Those cars are using the FA20T, witch is a COMPLETELY different engine. The only thing the same is the crank. The heads are different as are the pistons and of course the DI is completely different (no crickets.) Finally they have factory tuned turbos as this car should have.

You guys really should read this thread from some of the pioneers of this forum:

And despite the engine this is a GREAT CAR !

Why would you expect the FA20T to have the same heads, pistons, combustion chambers, fuel system , etc when it's designed and optimized for FI ? Different requirements, different parts where appropriate. To think they would be interchangeable is ridiculous.

That thread you reference is from early 2011 and is all guessing and conjecture for the most part. How is that relevant to anything now? Makes no sense, yet again.

I find the engine to be in character with the rest of the car. I also appreciate the D4S system and the added power it provides for this 2.0L engine. Love the high CR and immediate throttle response. It's a NA 2.0L, does pretty good for what it is.
Try sticking the engine from the Toyota yaris in your car.. Then maybe you will be happy..
All your posts about fa20 failures and longevity issues are usually blown out of proportion and inaccurate.
You bought the wrong car and then blame the world.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

Why would you expect the FA20T to have the same heads, pistons, combustion chambers, fuel system , etc when it's designed and optimized for FI ? Different requirements, different parts where appropriate. To think they would be interchangeable is ridiculous.

That thread you reference is from early 2011 and is all guessing and conjecture for the most part. How is that relevant to anything now? Makes no sense, yet again.

I find the engine to be in character with the rest of the car. I also appreciate the D4S system and the added power it provides for this 2.0L engine. Love the high CR and immediate throttle response. It's a NA 2.0L, does pretty good for what it is.
Try sticking the engine from the Toyota yaris in your car.. Then maybe you will be happy..
All your posts about fa20 failures and longevity issues are usually blown out of proportion and inaccurate.
You bought the wrong car and then blame the world.

My point is this is a one-off engine, if you are truly a fan of the twins you will be fixing/wrenching on them for many years. That D4-s system is going to be expensive to get parts for, but most significantly being a one-off, the short-block will probably become expensive if sales don't remain strong.


That's my point and also the D4-S torque dip contradicts Tada's whole line of BS of not wanting to turbo the engine. I think it shows a lack of knowledge of low displacement high compression DIT technology that can be made more NA-ish than a DI NA motor.


The only real argument for this car not having a turbo is two fold. One its probably plenty fast and if a header can kill the torque dip then I'd be satisfied. And two for warranty there is some evidence that a turbo impacts engine longevity negatively (although I personally think that's people turning up the boost.)


Again this is a GREAT CAR flaws and all.

[Trettiosjuan]

Originally Posted by regal

... and if a header can kill the torque dip then I'd be satisfied.

If it really bothers you, this single part with no added issues (like CEL, added noise or increased emissions) fixes it:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52835

[hmong337]

I've always said this all along... this car is perfect in the target price point. We're getting high class performance at bargain basement prices. People need to realize that Toyota was aiming for Porsche Cayman handling characteristics and I believe they achieved it. Now, it's up to the end user to add power where fitting. Toyota left that part up to us. They gave us a superb platform for a baseline.

What the hell else are you gonna buy at $25k brand new? Honda Si? Porky GenCoupe 2.0t? There's no questioning, if you want the sports car out of the bunch, FRS/BRZ is the only choice.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

Why would you expect the FA20T to have the same heads, pistons, combustion chambers, fuel system , etc when it's designed and optimized for FI ? Different requirements, different parts where appropriate. To think they would be interchangeable is ridiculous.
.

I'm not the guy who posted the FA20 is being used in the turbo WRX and Forester, I was responding to that BS. You really need to start reading threads instead of posting 3rd grade photo's.

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

If it really bothers you, this single part with no added issues (like CEL, added noise or increased emissions) fixes it:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52835

I'm heading a direction similar eventually, though I'm not going to put aftermarket cats right next to the heads where they might fall apart every year. With the tatrix and romraider I can disable that CEL algorithm. Thanks for the input though a header and tune keeps seeming like the answer to my only issue with the car! I'm waiting on warranty to run out and tuning to mature a little (Mikem53 you may have to use the dictionary for that word sorry.)

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by regal

I'm not the guy who posted the FA20 is being used in the turbo WRX and Forester, I was responding to that BS. You really need to start reading threads instead of posting 3rd grade photo's.

! I'm waiting on warranty to run out and tuning to mature a little (Mikem53 you may have to use the dictionary for that word sorry.)

You really need help. You don't have a clue.. Except how to complain.
Below is your quote.. Clueless as usual and you are a complete waste of time..

Originally Posted by regal

The pistons are better in the FA20T (lower comp.) and obviously the heads and the entire DI system is superior to the D4-S junk on our cars.

This think this will become a popular swap with the right header and charge pipe.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by FlamingRectumSyndrome

Perhaps I am a bit harsh, but it comes from"been there, done that". The live axle argument illustrates it perfectly. It's a never-ending quest for more horsepower, generally at the expense of making the car less and less useful. You end up with a quarter mile monster that goes through gas like it was free, but there's always someone who has gone to even further extremes. And in the end, really, I could teach a monkey to mash a gas pedal. Real driving is a little more involved, taking planning and strategy and observation. A car that is optimized to work with the driver needs to do more than just accelerate. Too much weight or power can be a detriment. There needs to be a balance. I think that's the appeal of the twins. "Seeing the light" isn't elitism, it's seeing a larger picture, and being open to a driving experience that is more than one-dimensional.

Again you keep shoving every mustang owner into the same box. This is coming from someone who has experience in modern Mutangs, Boss 302s specifically. Zero horsepower mods, over $10k in brakes and a few thousand in suspension and it was a fantastic track car, live axle and all. More fun on track than my BRZ too.

Just because some owners prefer drag racing a mustang doesn't mean that all owners are like that. Hell since I know only one drag racer with a mustang and over 10 local mustang track guys the perception is pretty opposite to me.. and all of those owners LOVE the idea of IRS for the mustang.

Depending on how the new mustang is, I might sell the BRZ for one. :shrug: I'm a car enthusiast and don't give a rats ass what badge is on the car.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by LeeMaster

I could not agree more with this statemet. 98% of the time when getting into a conversation with people I always hear, "It's just so slow", or, "Needs a turbo" OR "Needs AWD + Turbo".
You see it on facebook all the time, less in real life because people are no longer hiding behind their computer but you get the idea..

It is too slow. If I switch to the BRZ from any of my other cars it's amazing how slow it is. On track I think I could eat lunch on the back straight at Sebring and finish before T17.

If the car had 50 more WHP it would be perfect IMO, it doesn't need 400hp or anything like that, but it does need more.