Edelbrock E-force Owner's thread and FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions)

[86fun]

Wow, yea, this could explain a lot if bad set of sensors got out there! How can we test for this????

[dj2020]

Originally Posted by 86fun

Wow, yea, this could explain a lot if bad set of sensors got out there! How can we test for this????

On my JRSC set up, I switched to an OMNI 2.5 MAP sensor when upgraded to the HBP. It automatically threw a P0451 code for me after 2-3 drives. Not saying this is directly related to the above problems. Shawn Church eventually figured out that either the offset or scaling was off on my sensor for some reason. Now, I don't know if the sensor calibration itself was off or if the initial scaling/offset settings were incorrectly entered into my Ecutek tune. Either way, Shawn made it right.

I believe one way to tell if your MAP sensor offset is wrong is to turn the ignition to the ON position but don't start the car. Compare your barometric sensor with the MAP sensor reading. They should be equal or close it. If you're at sea level, it should ready 1 Bar!

[Luftwaffel]

I have noticed my baro and MAP pressures are off by just a touch but it's like 1-2 kPa at atmosphere. Nothing too serious. My vacuum reads -18 to -19 inHg on a standalone gauge, and the Ecutek log reflects this.

This is an etune with the factory 2.5bar. I think yours is just special, lol.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by sales@delicioustuning.com

Steve,

I gave Shawn Church a call this morning to talk about your car and see exactly what was going on with it. I understand how things can sometimes get misconstrued when the topic isn't something one is an expert on, so allow me to relay exactly what the problem was with your car.

Edelbrock kits come standard with a 2.5BAR Bosch Map sensor. Aftermarket map sensors must be scaled within the tune, and map sensors typically have a standard scaling which is adhered to. Case and point, every 2.5BAR Bosch map sensor we've done, and every 2.5BAR Bosch map sensor Shawn has done up to this point, has used the exact same scaling. Turns out, your particular car, for whatever reason, did not like the standard scaling and Shawn had to SIGNIFICANTLY alter even his own scaling to get it to read properly on your vehicle. Shawn and I agreed that this kind of inconsistency is not something that has any chance of being dialed in remotely, and would absolutely need to be done in person to diagnose and address properly. If you'll recall, we as the tuners at Delicious Tuning never saw your car in person.

This accounts 100% for your P0068 code, which relies on the MAF, MAP, and throttle all playing nicely together. Since the map sensor scaling was off due to your "unicorn" sensor, the throttle also had significant issues through the usable range which made the car absolutely terrible to drive. In addition, since your scaling was again off on the standard 2.5BAR values, vacuum reflected far too high at idle even after you had fixed your leaks. Since manifold pressure read too high at idle, your fuel trims were also out of whack. These symptoms represent themselves as a vacuum leak, which is why I was telling you to continue looking for one. This explains why you could no longer find any leaks after fixing the major ones, and why we were all left scratching our heads as to why your vehicle was still having issues.

As a tuner, this kind of inconsistency is not something that could have been diagnosed, addressed, or even guessed at without seeing and touching the car in person. While I understand it is also very easy to point fingers at vendors, this is clearly a special case. Your car is running well now; drive it and enjoy it. Is it by no fault of Delicious Tuning that your map sensor was so far off compared to every other 2.5BAR we've done, and is not something we could have fixed without seeing the car in person (which was always an option).

Sincerely,

Zach
Delicious Tuning

I'm gonna ask the question on my mind, but please understand I fully respect you and Bill and the tune I've been running for years now. So, this is likely gonna seem like I'm being a devil's advocate, but only because I don't understand, not because I suspect you guys don't.

I've trouble shoot a lot of different things. One of the hardest parts of trouble shooting is figuring out if it's the instrumentation or the process that's off but once you eliminate one, the other is all that's left. In this case it was the instrumentation, what about this issue made that conclusion so hard to come to?

[86KEEBS]

Has anyone tried another intake pipe? I have the fa20 club uel header and think it may melt the plastic intake box. A pipe come up behind the rad kinda like the nameless header and I remember reading something similar. I have the fa20club cold air intake as well that I wouldn't mind cutting up to make work. I also have stock header that I could hollow out and install but I'd rather not..

[Lunatic]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

For clarity, were you using the Edelbrock supplied BOSCH 2.5 Bar MAP sensor?

.

Yes.

[nstymatt]

Originally Posted by dj2020

On my JRSC set up, I switched to an OMNI 2.5 MAP sensor when upgraded to the HBP. It automatically threw a P0451 code for me after 2-3 drives. Not saying this is directly related to the above problems. Shawn Church eventually figured out that either the offset or scaling was off on my sensor for some reason. Now, I don't know if the sensor calibration itself was off or if the initial scaling/offset settings were incorrectly entered into my Ecutek tune. Either way, Shawn made it right.

I believe one way to tell if your MAP sensor offset is wrong is to turn the ignition to the ON position but don't start the car. Compare your barometric sensor with the MAP sensor reading. They should be equal or close it. If you're at sea level, it should ready 1 Bar!

Interesting, I recently installed a jrsc (stock pulley, c30) and the car threw a P0451 code after a few startups too. I've read that P0451 is likely due to either a leak somewhere, or a sensor that is used for a boost solenoid/flexfuel kit was not being disabled in the tune. I don't suspect it's a vacuum leak since idle is completely fine (ECUTek logs reflect this too). But my tuner is also said that the sensor is disabled as well, so I'm not sure what it could be.

I'll check MAP sensor readings as you suggested. Was that the cause of your P0451 code?

[dj2020]

Originally Posted by nstymatt

Interesting, I recently installed a jrsc (stock pulley, c30) and the car threw a P0451 code after a few startups too. I've read that P0451 is likely due to either a leak somewhere, or a sensor that is used for a boost solenoid/flexfuel kit was not being disabled in the tune. I don't suspect it's a vacuum leak since idle is completely fine (ECUTek logs reflect this too). But my tuner is also said that the sensor is disabled as well, so I'm not sure what it could be.

I'll check MAP sensor readings as you suggested. Was that the cause of your P0451 code?

My P0451 was an incorrect MAP sensor calibration I believe. Either the sensor was off or the offset/scale was incorrect in the tune for my 2.5 MAP bar sensor. Once this was accounted for by my tuner, everything was running fine and no more P0451 code thrown even after re-enabling the code in the tune. When I was getting the P0451 code, my MAP sensor was easily reading 0.15-0.20 BAR less than the true 0.94 BAR reading at my elevation. Now it's always within 0.01 BAR or so compared to the baro sensor. (I hope this is not too off topic since we have JRSC set ups and we're in the Edelbrock thread, sorry.)

See below link for P0451 code:
https://cobbtuning.zendesk.com/hc/en...otential-Fixes

[Luftwaffel]

Originally Posted by 86KEEBS

Has anyone tried another intake pipe? I have the fa20 club uel header and think it may melt the plastic intake box. A pipe come up behind the rad kinda like the nameless header and I remember reading something similar. I have the fa20club cold air intake as well that I wouldn't mind cutting up to make work. I also have stock header that I could hollow out and install but I'd rather not..

Any other intake has to be tuned for, and is probably not an amazing idea in the first place. My recommendation is resell your header and pick up another one second hand if possible. I'm not going to lie, every time I see that style of header, I stare at it for a minute and marvel at the lack of forethought in their design.

Originally Posted by nstymatt

Was that the cause of your P0451 code?

I had a P0451 when I had an incorrectly scaled MAP, FWIW.

[nstymatt]

Originally Posted by dj2020

My P0451 was an incorrect MAP sensor calibration I believe. Either the sensor was off or the offset/scale was incorrect in the tune for my 2.5 MAP bar sensor. Once this was accounted for by my tuner, everything was running fine and no more P0451 code thrown even after re-enabling the code in the tune. When I was getting the P0451 code, my MAP sensor was easily reading 0.15-0.20 BAR less than the true 0.94 BAR reading at my elevation. Now it's always within 0.01 BAR or so compared to the baro sensor. (I hope this is not too off topic since we have JRSC set ups and we're in the Edelbrock thread, sorry.)

See below link for P0451 code:
https://cobbtuning.zendesk.com/hc/en...otential-Fixes

Thanks so much! I'll check this out. Yeah, let's not derail the edelbrock thread. Do you mind if I PM you if anything comes up?

[dj2020]

Originally Posted by nstymatt

Thanks so much! I'll check this out. Yeah, let's not derail the edelbrock thread. Do you mind if I PM you if anything comes up?

Anytime man!

[nstymatt]

Originally Posted by Luftwaffel

I had a P0451 when I had an incorrectly scaled MAP, FWIW.

I'm on moto-east tune as well...perhaps they left this out on my tune too. I'll double check with them, thanks!

[Luftwaffel]

Originally Posted by nstymatt

I'm on moto-east tune as well...perhaps they left this out on my tune too. I'll double check with them, thanks!

Did you check your log with the car on but not running and compare atmospheric pressure with manifold pressure?

[nstymatt]

Originally Posted by Luftwaffel

Did you check your log with the car on but not running and compare atmospheric pressure with manifold pressure?

Not yet, I'll get around to this later today. I really really really hope this is the cause of P0451 for me, if not I'm not sure what else it could be