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Old 02-20-2020, 11:05 PM   #127
Irace86.2.0
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I hope this mean FA24DIT!
It doesn’t. That won’t happen.
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:27 PM   #128
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It doesn’t. That won’t happen.
He really just does not understand this.
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:38 PM   #129
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I guess we’ll find out, but I gotta have hope!
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Old 02-21-2020, 12:06 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Broseph View Post
I guess we’ll find out, but I gotta have hope!
I hear the new Civic SI is supposed to be pretty good
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Old 02-21-2020, 12:11 AM   #131
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I guess we’ll find out, but I gotta have hope!
A turbo 86 will definitely cut into sales of the 4-cyl Supra. It's highly unlikely Toyota will let that happen.


With that being said, I wouldn't say a turbo 86 will never happen, because there have been surprises before. I wouldn't hold my breath though... there is like a 1% chance of a turbo 86 in the future, maybe a little higher for the BRZ.
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Old 02-21-2020, 01:38 AM   #132
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So, would Toyota and Subaru use the brz/86 as a platform for which to introduce a hybrid/electric sportscar? Didn't we see a rendering of this a while back from gazoo?
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Old 02-21-2020, 03:05 AM   #133
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So, would Toyota and Subaru use the brz/86 as a platform for which to introduce a hybrid/electric sportscar? Didn't we see a rendering of this a while back from gazoo?
It really isn’t that hard to imagine. In general, it is surprising more sports cars haven’t adopted a similar strategy, especially in light of the emergence of hybrid supercars like the holy trinity or Acura NSX. You would have expected some trickle down by now. The Honda CRZ Hybrid might have just been ahead of its time by a decade and not designed quite enough for performance.

They could either do it as a single model or as two models with the hybrid being more expensive and the better performance model like they are already doing with the Rav4. The hybrid powertrain could fill in torque. Imagine say 30-50 extra horsepower and instant torque with no dip in the power curve all while getting better weight distribution and increased gas mileage for a modest weight penalty. I’m not saying it is better than getting a turbo, but it might be more realistic. I doubt it would happen because I think they will stick with the boxer motor, but a 1.5T hybrid could be sweet.

Yes, we did see an ugly concept.

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Old 02-21-2020, 03:25 AM   #134
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The CRZ was just a cam change away from being a much more impressive car. The strength of mild hybrid assist is that you can toss any low end torque requirement out the window. They could've boosted the gas engine's power to 135hp easy, giving close to 150 total, making it about as fast as an NC1 Miata.

That's the strategy employed by the Porsche 918, that engine makes all its power up high, and has piss poor VE at low rpm, which doesn't matter since the electric motor more than compensates.

On the 86, the packaging is a little tricky for mild hybrid. Belted alternator starter would work, but it has very limited power handling capacity. Another idea is to put a constantly engaged bigger motor where the starter is, and seal off the clutch/flywheel converting it to a wet clutch sharing lubrication with the gear reduction to the electric motor. That sounds too expensive...

I would love a mild hybrid sports car. With lithium ion batteries, you can achieve similar total system mass as a normal car. You trade the mass of a lead acid battery and starter motor for a bigger lithium ion pack + 12V converter + motor controller, and the alternator weighs about the same as a permanent magnet motor-generator. Then you can tune a simpler engine for max peak power instead of trying to find low end torque with heavy gadgets like VTEC, dual stage intake manifolds, long tube headers, etc.

Last edited by serialk11r; 02-21-2020 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 02-21-2020, 03:51 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by serialk11r View Post
The CRZ was

I just call it the CR-Y. As in, everyone CR-Y's when they see what they did the the physical recreation of the CRX.


X Y Z
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Old 02-21-2020, 07:36 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialk11r View Post
The CRZ was just a cam change away from being a much more impressive car. The strength of mild hybrid assist is that you can toss any low end torque requirement out the window. They could've boosted the gas engine's power to 135hp easy, giving close to 150 total, making it about as fast as an NC1 Miata.

That's the strategy employed by the Porsche 918, that engine makes all its power up high, and has piss poor VE at low rpm, which doesn't matter since the electric motor more than compensates.

On the 86, the packaging is a little tricky for mild hybrid. Belted alternator starter would work, but it has very limited power handling capacity. Another idea is to put a constantly engaged bigger motor where the starter is, and seal off the clutch/flywheel converting it to a wet clutch sharing lubrication with the gear reduction to the electric motor. That sounds too expensive...

I would love a mild hybrid sports car. With lithium ion batteries, you can achieve similar total system mass as a normal car. You trade the mass of a lead acid battery and starter motor for a bigger lithium ion pack + 12V converter + motor controller, and the alternator weighs about the same as a permanent magnet motor-generator. Then you can tune a simpler engine for max peak power instead of trying to find low end torque with heavy gadgets like VTEC, dual stage intake manifolds, long tube headers, etc.
Subaru's hybrid tech puts the motor in the transmission, that might be the way to do it on an 86:
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Old 02-21-2020, 10:40 AM   #137
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Kinda makes sense to use a niche platform for introducing new and potentially polarizing technology applications. I guess the 86 will no longer be a purists vehicle which would explain the new design team.
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:34 AM   #138
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Kinda makes sense to use a niche platform for introducing new and potentially polarizing technology applications. I guess the 86 will no longer be a purists vehicle which would explain the new design team.
Other than ichi's rather vague insinuations the whole idea is of course pure speculation. Unfortunately with the real info we have from Toyota these speculations would seem to make more sense than the "it will be a turboed FA24, lighter weight, hatchback".
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:52 AM   #139
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Hi community, long time no see!
Long thread, didn't read thru.

Stumbled on this:

https://driving.ca/toyota/auto-news/...to-december-21

GR 86. This looks to be very plausible. Not sure if this has already been posted.
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Old 02-21-2020, 12:01 PM   #140
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Other than ichi's rather vague insinuations the whole idea is of course pure speculation.


Wait Ichi insinuated a hybrid? I missed that.
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