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Old 02-19-2020, 01:38 AM   #85
Irace86.2.0
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Originally Posted by 14stu View Post
The ND would get a jump off the line with the shorter gearing and lower weight, but an 86 reels it in very quickly (notice the BRZ hitting the higher trap speed which indicates that it lost due to lack of grip).

I've noticed at the track that my BRZ is faster then an ND in a drag (I've got headers and a tune so an extra 10hp or so over stock), it's enough to know I'm slightly faster but not enough to make a real difference until over about 60mph. From 60-100 or so the BRZ pulls on the ND noticeably.

Most of the ND's I've had direct comparison with were the ND1, so I don't know about the ND2's. I have driven the ND2 and it's nice but it didn't feel any faster than my BRZ in a straight line.
As far as I have seen in the reviews, the ND1 Miata was faster 0-60 and quarter mile, and the ND2 was that much faster. Iíve seen track day videos and reviews of stock Miatas walking 86ís in the straights. The ND Miata has similar hp/tq to the 86 with 400-500 less pounds and without the torque dip. They are different on gearing and other nuances to the power curve, but I really canít imagine how the 86 wins.
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Old 02-19-2020, 02:17 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14stu View Post
I've noticed at the track that my BRZ is faster then an ND in a drag (I've got headers and a tune so an extra 10hp or so over stock), it's enough to know I'm slightly faster but not enough to make a real difference until over about 60mph. From 60-100 or so the BRZ pulls on the ND noticeably.

Most of the ND's I've had direct comparison with were the ND1, so I don't know about the ND2's. I have driven the ND2 and it's nice but it didn't feel any faster than my BRZ in a straight line.
Headers and tune is more than 10hp though, and the two cars are close enough these small differences matter. My FRS was very noticeably faster when tuned (I believe I had it at 0.84 lambda and I dialed ignition advance back from the stage 1 map, so there was some left on the table), IIRC most people were getting around 15hp on only a tune for 1st gen FRS.

The ND1 is weak up top and has more drag, but it doesn't need much more to take the FRS down. The numbers make it pretty obvious: 180hp/2500lbs and 215hp/2950lbs are very close, and the ND2 has a wider powerband so average acceleration delivered is higher in most cases.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:45 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
As far as I have seen in the reviews, the ND1 Miata was faster 0-60 and quarter mile, and the ND2 was that much faster. Iíve seen track day videos and reviews of stock Miatas walking 86ís in the straights. The ND Miata has similar hp/tq to the 86 with 400-500 less pounds and without the torque dip. They are different on gearing and other nuances to the power curve, but I really canít imagine how the 86 wins.
I find that odd as I have no problem pulling on ND's I know the numbers don't lie but the ND doesn't seem to pull as well up top.

Here is video from my local track of an ND that is modded and I believe a former forum member who had an S/C'd Twin.
His Mods:
Stoptech C43 BBK
Raybestos ST43 pads
OpenFlash Header and OpenFlash tablet
Karcepts Sway Bars
Ohlins RT coilovers (11k/5k)
Toyo RR 235/40/17 tires
17x9 6ul wheels

He only runs 113 on the front straight. I hit 122-124 and am on comparable mods except I am on 200TW tires.

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Old 02-19-2020, 12:59 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
I find that odd as I have no problem pulling on ND's I know the numbers don't lie but the ND doesn't seem to pull as well up top.

Here is video from my local track of an ND that is modded and I believe a former forum member who had an S/C'd Twin.
His Mods:
Stoptech C43 BBK
Raybestos ST43 pads
OpenFlash Header and OpenFlash tablet
Karcepts Sway Bars
Ohlins RT coilovers (11k/5k)
Toyo RR 235/40/17 tires
17x9 6ul wheels

He only runs 113 on the front straight. I hit 122-124 and am on comparable mods except I am on 200TW tires.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2KLFapJPPg&t=177s
Anecdotal.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:14 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Anecdotal.
I get what you are saying but there is not much else to go off of. 10mph is a pretty big discrepancy anecdotal or not.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:18 PM   #90
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Let's not forget that it took 30 years and 4 generations for the Miata to get to where it is now.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:50 PM   #91
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The ND1 is slower than the FRS/BRZ 60-100 mph (really anything above 30 mph). It's about 1/2 second slower 60-100 mph. The ND's advantage is all in it's lower weight and 0-30 launch.

This article shows the difference. BRZ is a half second slower to 60, but catches up by 100.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mazd...rz-comparison/
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Old 02-19-2020, 03:17 PM   #92
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Neither car is fast. Fa20s dont seem to like Colorado air based on the tests I've seen and even at sea level require some pretty good driving to overcome traction and powerband issues.
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Old 02-19-2020, 06:49 PM   #93
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Neither car is fast. Fa20s dont seem to like Colorado air based on the tests I've seen and even at sea level require some pretty good driving to overcome traction and powerband issues.
Objectively, scientifically, what are the parameters for something to be fast?
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Old 02-19-2020, 08:26 PM   #94
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Objectively, scientifically, what are the parameters for something to be fast?
The first instance of a fast included with the purchase of a car was the mark V Golf GTI, so going by that, 0-60 in 6.3s

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Old 02-19-2020, 09:07 PM   #95
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Fast is never fast enough anyway.
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:25 AM   #96
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Objectively, scientifically, what are the parameters for something to be fast?
Whatever it is, itís faster than the BRZ.
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:40 AM   #97
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Whatever it is, itís faster than the BRZ.
Then why do you own one? All of your posts have been about wanting more power, the car is slow. Plenty of other options that have more output. It doesn't sound like you do track days or autoX. So the lightweight, decent handling, and good braking performance shouldn't be that much of a factor in your car owning decision. It just comes across as a bunch of whinge.
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:03 AM   #98
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And a WRX STi.
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