follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota 86 / Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB > Off-Topic Discussions > Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions

Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions Discuss all other cars and automotive news here.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-05-2020, 08:29 PM   #15
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
Posts: 2,753
Thanks: 1,700
Thanked 1,344 Times in 862 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
I think what he means is that in 5 years we will be using the technology of that time and not current(today's) tech.

The problem with current battery tech is it is advancing so fast it is obsoleting itself and leaving behind no support in a very short amount of time. Unless you have a custom solution made and continue to contract it to be built, or the industry can support a standardized battery. Our 48V/30AH that we where using is already obsolete with no plans to support it from the manufacturer. We hadn't even finished evaluating it yet

Now we are forced to adapt a solution that we believe(fingers crossed) may continue to be supported in some capacity even though it is not very ideal for our application.
More advanced battery technology isnít needed. Any improvements only betters the situation, but the real thing that is needed in infrastructure.

You say it is advancing so fast that it is making the old stuff obsolete. This couldnít be further from the truth. Because batteries have to be capable of charging off 120v/220v, they are all backwards compatible. It is true that basic chargers wonít compete with V3 Superchargers, but they donít have to because we just need more at this time. Moreover, older batteries are still great for use in home/grid storage. Older EVs will make perfect used cars for many people.

The other big thing is hydrogen. If anyone wants the range anxiety gone then battery/hydrogen cars will be the obvious solution. Again, we need supporting infrastructure.

Also remember, this is all NEW car sales in the UK. Plenty of used ICE cars will still be on the road for decades after, unless they change the laws.
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2020, 09:05 PM   #16
mav1178
Senior Member
 
mav1178's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Drives: 2005 Toyota Camry
Location: 91745
Posts: 6,291
Thanks: 484
Thanked 5,782 Times in 2,877 Posts
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Need to change the perspective away from the North American idea of distances and range when considering battery charge life in the UK.
Don't you know? America is the center of the universe and everything done in the world has to be filtered with American eyes.

Also, I'm 99% certain my next car will be the 2021+ Toyota Mirai. Got to sit in one last week while doing a focus group research study, I'm sold.
mav1178 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mav1178 For This Useful Post:
Tcoat (02-05-2020)
Old 02-05-2020, 09:18 PM   #17
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,230
Thanks: 2,253
Thanked 2,296 Times in 1,171 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
More advanced battery technology isnít needed. Any improvements only betters the situation, but the real thing that is needed in infrastructure.

You say it is advancing so fast that it is making the old stuff obsolete. This couldnít be further from the truth. Because batteries have to be capable of charging off 120v/220v, they are all backwards compatible. It is true that basic chargers wonít compete with V3 Superchargers, but they donít have to because we just need more at this time. Moreover, older batteries are still great for use in home/grid storage. Older EVs will make perfect used cars for many people.

The other big thing is hydrogen. If anyone wants the range anxiety gone then battery/hydrogen cars will be the obvious solution. Again, we need supporting infrastructure.

Also remember, this is all NEW car sales in the UK. Plenty of used ICE cars will still be on the road for decades after, unless they change the laws.
Try being a small manufacturer building battery powered equipment then


I know infrastructure is an issue, I live in Oregon. I work in the capital and live blocks from the capital building. Couldn't tell you where the nearest public EV charger is. Believe me I look as used Leafs are only about 5k.
__________________
"One of the great challenges in life is: knowing enough to think you're right, but not enough to know you're wrong."
- Neil deGrasse Tyson
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
soundman98 (02-05-2020)
Old 02-05-2020, 09:22 PM   #18
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
Posts: 2,753
Thanks: 1,700
Thanked 1,344 Times in 862 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Try being a small manufacturer building battery powered equipment then


I know infrastructure is an issue, I live in Oregon. I work in the capital and live blocks from the capital building. Couldn't tell you where the nearest public EV charger is. Believe me I look as used Leafs are only about 5k.
https://goelectric.oregon.gov/charge-your-ev

Quote:
Oregon has nearly 1,600 public charging stations from seven charging networks: AeroVironment, Blink, ChargePoint, EVgo, Greenlots, SemaConnect, and Tesla.
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2020, 09:31 PM   #19
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,230
Thanks: 2,253
Thanked 2,296 Times in 1,171 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Yeah I know there are ways to look it up. But like I said, my route from blocks away from the capital building to one of the main industrial areas of town, don't have any near by. I can't even take a bus from the nearest charging station I can find online to my work without having to walk quite a ways No infrastructure. Cart before the horse.
__________________
"One of the great challenges in life is: knowing enough to think you're right, but not enough to know you're wrong."
- Neil deGrasse Tyson
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2020, 09:36 PM   #20
soundman98
Boost is Whack. N/A4LYFE
 
soundman98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: '14 brz limited
Location: chicagolandia
Posts: 3,451
Thanks: 7,878
Thanked 3,184 Times in 1,747 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
More advanced battery technology isnít needed. Any improvements only betters the situation, but the real thing that is needed in infrastructure.

You say it is advancing so fast that it is making the old stuff obsolete. This couldnít be further from the truth. Because batteries have to be capable of charging off 120v/220v, they are all backwards compatible. It is true that basic chargers wonít compete with V3 Superchargers, but they donít have to because we just need more at this time. Moreover, older batteries are still great for use in home/grid storage. Older EVs will make perfect used cars for many people.

The other big thing is hydrogen. If anyone wants the range anxiety gone then battery/hydrogen cars will be the obvious solution. Again, we need supporting infrastructure.

Also remember, this is all NEW car sales in the UK. Plenty of used ICE cars will still be on the road for decades after, unless they change the laws.
hydrogen makes even less sense. it leaks out of EVERYTHING, the storage tanks have an expiration date(meaning the car has an expiration date), it's pressurized, and it violently explodes.

also an important factor is the uk heavily taxes older vehicles--scratch that, i can't find any definitive info on it except that they tax on c02 emissions...
__________________
my '14 brz limited "the return to normal" (or is it?)
led mods-10%(planning/designing/sitting on hands)audio mods-99%(done is never done)

hidplanet build log
soundman98 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to soundman98 For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (02-05-2020), why? (02-06-2020)
Old 02-05-2020, 09:58 PM   #21
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
Posts: 2,753
Thanks: 1,700
Thanked 1,344 Times in 862 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundman98 View Post
hydrogen makes even less sense. it leaks out of EVERYTHING, the storage tanks have an expiration date(meaning the car has an expiration date), it's pressurized, and it violently explodes.

also an important factor is the uk heavily taxes older vehicles--scratch that, i can't find any definitive info on it except that they tax on c02 emissions...
I doubt Toyota would invest so much in the tech if it wasnít viable. They just need more infrastructure. I agree with Musk that it is less efficient, but it will have a place in the future for range for many vehicles. Even if batteries become faster to charge then itíll still be necessary for some people for towing or whatever. Maybe if they can half the weight and double the range then maybe that would make hydrogen obsolete, even for special applications.
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Irace86.2.0 For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (02-06-2020)
Old 02-05-2020, 10:15 PM   #22
soundman98
Boost is Whack. N/A4LYFE
 
soundman98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: '14 brz limited
Location: chicagolandia
Posts: 3,451
Thanks: 7,878
Thanked 3,184 Times in 1,747 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
i have a sneaking suspicion that toyota's hydrogen push has a lot to do with the definitive vehicle expiration date, as well as the capability of using natural gas to create the fuel.

toyota is still very much "refueling ain't our problem".
__________________
my '14 brz limited "the return to normal" (or is it?)
led mods-10%(planning/designing/sitting on hands)audio mods-99%(done is never done)

hidplanet build log
soundman98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2020, 10:36 PM   #23
Lantanafrs2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2013 frs red
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,466
Thanks: 629
Thanked 896 Times in 545 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
If after 100 yrs, they could build reliable internal combustion engines, my opinion on evs would be different. The manufacturers can't seem to avoid major recalls with every new model. Maybe they can handle electric motors better than they do engines and transmissions
Lantanafrs2 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Lantanafrs2 For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (02-05-2020)
Old 02-05-2020, 10:52 PM   #24
soundman98
Boost is Whack. N/A4LYFE
 
soundman98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: '14 brz limited
Location: chicagolandia
Posts: 3,451
Thanks: 7,878
Thanked 3,184 Times in 1,747 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2 View Post
If after 100 yrs, they could build reliable internal combustion engines, my opinion on evs would be different. The manufacturers can't seem to avoid major recalls with every new model. Maybe they can handle electric motors better than they do engines and transmissions
most of the recalls these days don't deal with powertrain issues...
__________________
my '14 brz limited "the return to normal" (or is it?)
led mods-10%(planning/designing/sitting on hands)audio mods-99%(done is never done)

hidplanet build log
soundman98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2020, 11:00 PM   #25
Lantanafrs2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2013 frs red
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,466
Thanks: 629
Thanked 896 Times in 545 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundman98 View Post
most of the recalls these days don't deal with powertrain issues...
But there are enough powertrain recalls to make me wonder if they'll ever get it right. And notwithstanding recalls, how about throw out bearings, cvts that fail after 50k miles, 1000 dollar water pump replacements etc.
Lantanafrs2 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Lantanafrs2 For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (02-05-2020)
Old 02-05-2020, 11:00 PM   #26
Will BRZ
Damn that's crazy...
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Drives: 2015 BRZ
Location: Texas
Posts: 875
Thanks: 674
Thanked 672 Times in 416 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
15 years is a lot of time. So many things can happen and opinions on ICE/EV can change. Technology in vehicles can also advance drastically. Weíve seen how much technology in general advanced between 2000 and 2015. I think weíll see the trend on car manufacturers picking up on EV and hybrid cars continue.

We really canít say how things are going to be in 2035, so we have to wait and see. I really donít know how they expect people to let go of internal combustion engines though. Thereís a lot more of those than battery powered cars. Wonít they lose money if people decide to keep their cars refuse to buy?
Will BRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Will BRZ For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (02-05-2020)
Old 02-05-2020, 11:04 PM   #27
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
Posts: 2,753
Thanks: 1,700
Thanked 1,344 Times in 862 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will BRZ View Post
15 years is a lot of time. So many things can happen and opinions on ICE/EV can change. Technology in vehicles can also advance drastically. Weíve seen how much technology in general advanced between 2000 and 2015. I think weíll see the trend on car manufacturers picking up on EV and hybrid cars continue.

We really canít say how things are going to be in 2035, so we have to wait and see. I really donít know how they expect people to let go of internal combustion engines though. Thereís a lot more of those than battery powered cars. Wonít they lose money if people decide to keep their cars refuse to buy?
Most people have zero attachment to ICEs. Most want something that gets them from A to B in comfort without issues. ICE will die like the manual transmission. It is unfortunate, but itíll happen.
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Irace86.2.0 For This Useful Post:
86MLR (02-06-2020), Captain Snooze (02-06-2020), Will BRZ (02-05-2020)
Old 02-05-2020, 11:23 PM   #28
Will BRZ
Damn that's crazy...
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Drives: 2015 BRZ
Location: Texas
Posts: 875
Thanks: 674
Thanked 672 Times in 416 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Most people have zero attachment to ICEs. Most want something that gets them from A to B in comfort without issues. ICE will die like the manual transmission. It is unfortunate, but itíll happen.
Yeah good point. Not exactly the same way, but I know what you mean. Feel like weíll see some more of this.


Speaking of which. What about big oil and gas companies? Like of course there will still be a big demand for it for other things, but cars and trucks must be a huge part of it. What about like 18 wheelers and all the other trucks?
Will BRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Will BRZ For This Useful Post:
Captain Snooze (02-06-2020)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Understanding Knock and Preignition: The Combustion Perspective arghx7 Software Tuning 13 08-09-2019 06:32 PM
Got banned from gf's complex jdmblood Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 11 07-12-2015 12:46 PM
Why have so many users been banned? xuimod Site Announcements / Questions / Issues 9 03-08-2015 02:23 PM
Banned Toyota GT 86 Advert Banned Nevermore Photos, Videos, Wallpapers, Gallery Forum 9 11-16-2012 08:27 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.