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Old 04-10-2019, 02:12 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by wparsons View Post
2JZ with V160 is 594lbs fully dressed, FA20 with stock gearbox is 480lbs fully dressed. That's 114lbs.
This seems off. Just 114lbs? Are you sure that isnít kg?

Iron block vs aluminum. Aluminum manifold vs plastic. 6 vs 4 cylinders. One of the beefiest 6speeds ever versus one of the weakest. Twin turbo system vs NA. This isnít adding the FMIC and piping or larger radiator of course, but still that seems low.
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Old 04-10-2019, 02:23 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0
This seems off. Just 114lbs? Are you sure that isn’t kg?

Iron block vs aluminum. Aluminum manifold vs plastic. 6 vs 4 cylinders. One of the beefiest 6speeds ever versus one of the weakest. Twin turbo system vs NA. This isn’t adding the FMIC and piping or larger radiator of course, but still that seems low.

And two heads vs one, four cams vs two (plus all associated hardware), timing chain vs timing belt. Boxers are very heavy for aluminum 4 cylinders...

I'm just using published weights found online.


My original point was that it's definitely more than a 70lb weight difference, wasn't arguing it's a light engine.


Digging further, it seems that maybe the 594 is without gearbox. I'm finding sites claiming 594 with gearbox and others claiming 750ish with gearbox.
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Old 04-10-2019, 02:54 PM   #73
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I always saw it as almost 600lbs (590's) WITHOUT transmission.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:15 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by wparsons View Post
And two heads vs one, four cams vs two (plus all associated hardware), timing chain vs timing belt. Boxers are very heavy for aluminum 4 cylinders...

Digging further, it seems that maybe the 594 is without gearbox. I'm finding sites claiming 594 with gearbox and others claiming 750ish with gearbox.
There is a little difference in cam length, head length/size, etc, as it is mostly just cutting stuff in half; it isnít twice as much. The cams, yes, the belts, yes, but like you said, 750 with gearbox is more accurate.
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:27 PM   #75
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Here is a pic dump for some visual references.
...
For shits and giggles, here's how a Synergy V8 sits, in comparison:
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:25 PM   #76
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For shits and giggles, here's how a Synergy V8 sits, in comparison:
Whatís the displacement on that one? That motor would be nice for this chassis, but way too expensive. What transmission do people run with those?
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Old 04-11-2019, 11:12 AM   #77
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Whatís the displacement on that one? That motor would be nice for this chassis, but way too expensive. What transmission do people run with those?
3.0L. Bolts up to the stock transmission, but most are using either a Quaife or Holinger.
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Old 04-11-2019, 11:28 AM   #78
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3.0L. Bolts up to the stock transmission, but most are using either a Quaife or Holinger.


Is that a stroked or overbored zx14r?


So they make an adapter or custom bellhousing?


Do transmissions have limits on rpms? Like a 1:1 gear would spin equal to the engine, and the first gear would spin a lot less, but final gear would spin more than the engine, and I didn't know if a car with a 12k-15k redline needed a special transmission to handle those rpms, sustained or hot. At minimal, I feel like heat buildup could be an issue.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:07 PM   #79
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Is that a stroked or overbored zx14r?
I believe it is a little bit of both. It's a custom cylinder block. Pretty much the only OEM Kawasaki parts are the head castings, throttle bodies, and a few other things.


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So they make an adapter or custom bellhousing?
They designed these particular billet blocks to bolt right up to the OEM transmission. They can modify the design to bolt up to anything they want.

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Do transmissions have limits on rpms? Like a 1:1 gear would spin equal to the engine, and the first gear would spin a lot less, but final gear would spin more than the engine, and I didn't know if a car with a 12k-15k redline needed a special transmission to handle those rpms, sustained or hot. At minimal, I feel like heat buildup could be an issue.
Yes. The OEM transmission's synchros can't keep up at those high RPMs, so shifting will be difficult. If you watch the JUN shakedown video, the driver shifts very slowly. Heat is definitely an issue, so I run a transmission cooler for the Quaife.

Sorry for the threadjack!
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:18 AM   #80
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It would be under the horizontal (transverse) midline of the car, or mostly around crank height and lower, which is good, but definitely in front of the vertical (frontal/coronal) midline, which would put the car more front biased, even further away from the stock 53/47.
Nothing a corner balance wont fix (see below from the LS3 BRZ thread).

Additionally it seems conservatively less than 50 lbs are gained from the swap (and weight closer to the center of the car) when compared to a S/C kit (I/C and piping up front, etc.) probably even less gained when compared to a turbo kit.

I say it's good hard data that can give confidence to anyone considering swapping that you won't just destroy the car handling characteristics. Of course, not all engines are LSs and this doesn't mean the car handles absolutely the same as stock, but it gives a good idea that you're not drastically changing it.

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Car has been weighed...

According to my calculations she has gained 121 lbs over stock. What a fat pig she has become. Oh well, eventually she will be put on a diet. I think all of the torque should make up for it in the meantime!

The big plus is the front to rear weight distribution remained practically unchanged from factory at 56.2% front and 43.8% rear. I believe factory is 56-44. Don't think I'll notice .2% (these numbers are off because stock is 53/47, but the main point is the post below where a simple corner balance nets the car at 50/50)

Car weighed 2979 lbs with a full interior, spare, tools and a full tank of fuel. Minus 2776 for a stock brz and 82 lbs for 13 gallons of fuel, I came up with the number 121 lbs gained which sounds about right. Please feel free to chime in if you think I'm mistaken.

For reference my Jackson Racing supercharger weighed 66 lbs when it was boxed and ready to ship. My Edelbrock kit was 99 lbs shipping weight. So to sum things up I'm pretty happy with the weight gain compared to FI. And I'm very happy that weight distribution remains practically unchanged front to rear.


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the nice part is we have a 50% cross weight without driver and got it to 49.6% with a 225lb driver without having the car sit at awkward heights on each corner from balancing.
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:59 PM   #81
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Nothing a corner balance wont fix (see below from the LS3 BRZ thread).

Additionally it seems conservatively less than 50 lbs are gained from the swap (and weight closer to the center of the car) when compared to a S/C kit (I/C and piping up front, etc.) probably even less gained when compared to a turbo kit.

I say it's good hard data that can give confidence to anyone considering swapping that you won't just destroy the car handling characteristics. Of course, not all engines are LSs and this doesn't mean the car handles absolutely the same as stock, but it gives a good idea that you're not drastically changing it.
Yeah, the LS is the preferred swap for something light and compact. The 2JZ will sit three extra cylinders forward than the LS with a higher amount of mass up high and with IC piping and an IC up front like you mentioned.

Of course, more weight can be added to the rear of the car by upgrading the differential, etc. I don't think the surge tank or other rear mods this guy did added much to the rear (did he do a diff swap/upgrade?). Jacking up the front suspension to corner balance the rear will give an even footing, but it doesn't change the moment of inertia. For instance, a Cayman and a Carrera could both have a 50/50 weight distribution, but the Carrera would have more weight further from the center of mass being a rear mounted engine versus the Cayman's mid mounted engine. This is the big argument with the 2jz besides absolute weight gain.

They said they were able to cross balance the car to 50/50 without jacking up the suspension to weird heights/angles, which is good, but that doesn't mean the car is balanced 50/50 left to right or front to back just because cross balance was 50/50 (but they probably did those too the best they could, just saying), nor like I said above, does it mean weight wasn't displaced away from the center of mass or up higher than stock.

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Old 04-16-2019, 02:01 PM   #82
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Yeah, the LS is the preferred swap for something light and compact. The 2JZ will sit three extra cylinders forward than the LS with a higher amount of mass up high and with IC piping and an IC up front like you mentioned.
Yes, I'm not in any way saying this is equivalent to stock handling or better, I'm just saying the handling is not destroyed. I can personally attest to it based on before and after driving.
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Old 04-16-2019, 02:39 PM   #83
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Fun fact. The dude that started this thread never did the swap.
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:36 PM   #84
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I will defer to your guys expertise but I got the 56-44 numbers from Vorshlag but now looking back at it that was a modified car with a turbo kit. If anyone has pictures of a stock car getting a corner balance I'd love to see the weight and front to rear distribution. If it really is 53 front 47 rear from the factory I'd say that is impressive.

Here is mine for reference with fuel and a 225 lb driver.

It's really hard for me to believe that this swap is going to negatively effect handling more than a turbo kit or TVS supercharger. When you get a good look in my engine bay and see how low and far back the LS sits. Then you factor in that I think the majority of the weight gain is in the trans not the engine which shouldn't hurt the handling or COG.

I am expecting the handling to be effected but not as much as you'd think. I will get some drivers behind the wheel who are more sensitive to handling dynamics than I am to try and get a true unbiased opinion on whether I "ruined my car".
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