wide vs. narrow wheels/tires

[nikitopo]

I don't want to be an a**** too. Why would I put a picture of my car with the same issue? I don't claim to be the Mr. perfect or to know everything. I am also trying things and doing tests.

My tire is an Advan AD08r which is known to have a stiff sidewall, but it looks that still not stiff enough. I am considering now changing to the new Advan A052 and same size. The one tire weights 8.5 kg and the latter 9.7 kg. Why to have such a big difference in weight if not of internal structure differences?

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Yes but more mechanical grip doesn't make you ALWAYS faster given that power is the same. This was the point of the original post. If it was so simple like swapping tires and wheels, then every manufacturer would provide their models with bigger combinations. The original comparison was of a much more expensive trim level with many changes but not on the engine power and a much cheaper trim level with not so many additions (the ra racing trim in Japan). The latter car outperformed the other one for a reason. But as the previous post some will argue that "the picture angle is not the same". Lol. Arguing just for the sake of arguing ...

That in itself is misleading. More mechanical grip will always make you faster but the drag associated with wider tires on a particular vehicle will force a point of diminishing returns. Hence the need for clarifications, facts and removing variables.

The Tire deformation that you’re trying to illustrate will vary from car to car and tire to tire and wheel size to wheel size. Load, pressure and tire construction will all effect your contact patch. I will say that the deformation you’re getting will be drastically reduced by going to a larger diameter wheel with the same tire. Not to mention you would receive sharper feedback and increased roll stiffness.

[why?]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

That in itself is misleading. More mechanical grip will always make you faster but the drag associated with wider tires on a particular vehicle will force a point of diminishing returns. Hence the need for clarifications, facts and removing variables.

The Tire deformation that you’re trying to illustrate will vary from car to car and tire to tire and wheel size to wheel size. Load, pressure and tire construction will all effect your contact patch. I will say that the deformation you’re getting will be drastically reduced by going to a larger diameter wheel with the same tire. Not to mention you would receive sharper feedback and increased roll stiffness.

That is 100% false. More mechanical grip will not always make you faster, it can easily make you slower. If more mechanical grip always made you faster everyone who raced would try to cram 300+ width tires onto their cars.

Everything is a compromise. Everything you change on your car affects everything else. The entire point of this thread is to make people actually think about what they are doing, and not automatically decide to cram the absolute largest wheels and tires they can afford on this car. Why is that so hard to figure out?

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by why?

That is 100% false. More mechanical grip will not always make you faster, it can easily make you slower. If more mechanical grip always made you faster everyone who raced would try to cram 300+ width tires onto their cars.

Everything is a compromise. Everything you change on your car affects everything else. The entire point of this thread is to make people actually think about what they are doing, and not automatically decide to cram the absolute largest wheels and tires they can afford on this car. Why is that so hard to figure out?

How is that 100% false?

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by why?

That is 100% false.

I think he qualified that statement correctly with the following: "but the drag associated with wider tires on a particular vehicle will force a point of diminishing returns." He is correct that increased mechanical grip makes you faster until the penalties associated with it (drag, weight, etc) prevent any further improvement.

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by venturaII

I think he qualified that statement correctly with the following: "but the drag associated with wider tires on a particular vehicle will force a point of diminishing returns." He is correct that increased mechanical grip makes you faster until the penalties associated with it (drag, weight, etc) prevent any further improvement.

I wish I knew how to “give thanks”. So thank you.

This thread is full of general blanket statements without context and what ever little truth each post contains is lost in a sea of misconceptions, variables and anecdotal evidence.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

I wish I knew how to “give thanks”. So thank you.

This thread is full of general blanket statements without context and what ever little truth each post contains is lost in a sea of misconceptions, variables and anecdotal evidence.

Because a lot of people think they know more than they do. Send a kid to college for engineering and watch their ego inflate. I bet you half of the people in this thread don't know what diminishing returns is.. inb4 google definitions get posted.

[Teseo]

But i want to hear "bruh, that's meatty!"
The only reasson i keep away from wider tires is the price

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Teseo

But i want to hear "bruh, that's meatty!"
The only reasson i keep away from wider tires is the price

Meh, you can fit some decently priced tires on 8" wheels. Stock size for example fits just fine imo.

[Teseo]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Meh, you can fit some decently priced tires on 8" wheels. Stock size for example fits just fine imo.

Which you reccomend? Enlight me pls

[Vital]

Originally Posted by Teseo

Which you reccomend? Enlight me pls

Just get Firestone Indy 500s they arent too expensive even in a 245/40/17 tire size.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Teseo

Which you reccomend? Enlight me pls

I can't recommend any because I don't have experience with anything but the stock rubber and winters.

Price wise, based on where you live I'm sure it would be different, but some sets of Michelin tires appear to be affordable. Just looking around Pilot Sport A/S 3 seem to be decent priced, but again, I'm not sure on their performance.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by why?

That is 100% false. More mechanical grip will not always make you faster, it can easily make you slower. If more mechanical grip always made you faster everyone who raced would try to cram 300+ width tires onto their cars.

Everything is as compromise. Everything you change on your car affects everything else. The entire point of this thread is to make people actually think about what they are doing, and not automatically decide to cram the absolute largest wheels and tires they can afford on this car. Why is that so hard to figure out?

I think it's at least as inaccurate to say that a 300 width would actually give more mechanical grip to begin with.

[Icecreamtruk]

In todays topic: a bunch of people who have no idea how grip works and some who do (at least partially) but get flamed for trying to share the knowledge.

Grab your popcorn, and start from page 9.