"Bumping" on track days?

[orthojoe]

Who uses slicks at an HPDE, let alone in the novice group? Slicks should never be used in the novice group.

[mrk1]

To me if your out there testing the limits of braking you shouldn't do it when there is someone in front of you, some times common sense isn't common.

One thing I have learned to do is ask your instructor to look at the traffic on track, if you play it right you can duck into the pits and then pop out in open air.

And yes I am not a fan of slicks at a HPDE, I like to use my tire to choice to "slow down" the car. That way the limits are easier to reach at a responsible pace for the day. I think people often forget that most HPDE are for learning and practice not hail mary qualifying laps.

[solidONE]

Sometimes people act like idiots. I simply try to avoid drivers that are going beyond their limits. Had a guy loose control of his car twice right in front of me at buttonwillow with speedventures on the same lap. Black flagged but keeps lapping ignoring black flag. Fucked up thing is after he finally came into the pits they let him right back on the track without any penalty. Just a don't do it again. Even more fucked up is that his friend was driving the exact same way, even after being warned. I aint going to get my car messed up because some idiot thinks they are Ayrton senna reincarnated...

[DarkSunrise]

I saw someone arrive in novice class in a 1st gen, big-turbo MR2 on slicks. Talk about a bad combination. Needless to say, he spun off track. Everyone knew it was going to happen.

[solidONE]

See my problem with the scenario I mentioned was not the fact that dude lost control in the first place. Hey..., it's a race track and we are there to see what we can do and what our cars can do. It's the fact that he had zero consideration for the safety of others. It like hey you see me in your rear view and you pushed it too hard at that earlier corner and nearly caused a crash... It's fine, our cars did not make contact. You now know pushing that hard you will lose control and u got other people also carrying a good amount of speed right behind you so maybe you should dial it back a notch maybe point them by at the straight... But no.. You go and put yourself and the people behind you in danger AGAIN and AGAIN!?! You already know you and your car cannot do what you attempted earlier why the fuck are you doing the same shit over and over? Not only that, you got your whole crew of douchebags on the track driving like dumbfu*ks with homicidal/suicidal tendencies thinking you are racing for world douchebag championships of trackdays... Lol

Sorry for being dramatic, but that's how I feel about those situations. And that all I have to say about that. :p

[icemang17]

for DE events ANY contact is not tolerated...... it is a DRIVER EDUCATION event, not a race...not even close.... drivers that push too hard and contact another car are quickly removed from the group and never allowed to return..... as for paying for the damage to the other car......that's between the drivers to determine

"red mist" happens to everyone, but in DE its unacceptable.....many race groups use "gentleman" rules known as 13/13 which contact is never allowed and any racer deemed at fault is suspended for 13 month!!!

In some cheaper spec race series, minimal contact is allowed...typically spec miata-e30...bump drafting gives a competitive advantage to drivers that do it.....but these are low powered cars that aren't very fast on the straight to begin with

[canu_50]

Are most of the guy running with freaking point-by??? I thorougly hate point-by, gives another chance of driver mistake!!

The way we do it here, You want to pass someone, you are in charge of it, you go offline and you pass before the braking zone(baking zone accepted in the race/instructor group). The guy in front of you should have the courtesy of lifting and letting you pass him in the straight, especially with a car with more horsepower!

I did track days with point-by, and almost got ran over by the car in front of me. Guy was such a noob, and haven't listen to the driver's meeting, he points me, i'm about to pass him, cuts in front of me, because he wanted to tell me he was going offline so i can pass him with out moving... Freaked me out when i was about to pass him, and suddenlly saw him pull in front of me.. Worst, i wasn't driving my car..

[DarkSunrise]

Every group I've run with does point-by's. You point to the side of the car you want them to pass you on so there's no confusion, and you always stay on line. It's the passing car's responsibility to pass off line and complete the pass safely. Your job is to lift to let them by. Instructor group can offer point by's anywhere.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by canu_50

Are most of the guy running with freaking point-by??? I thorougly hate point-by, gives another chance of driver mistake!!

The way we do it here, You want to pass someone, you are in charge of it, you go offline and you pass before the braking zone(baking zone accepted in the race/instructor group). The guy in front of you should have the courtesy of lifting and letting you pass him in the straight, especially with a car with more horsepower!

I did track days with point-by, and almost got ran over by the car in front of me. Guy was such a noob, and haven't listen to the driver's meeting, he points me, i'm about to pass him, cuts in front of me, because he wanted to tell me he was going offline so i can pass him with out moving... Freaked me out when i was about to pass him, and suddenlly saw him pull in front of me.. Worst, i wasn't driving my car..

Your post exemplifies exactly why you belong in the point by group.

[bkblitzed]

lol during my track day with the STi, my STi got a major boost leak on my afternoon sessions from the intercooler couplet, and it was so bad i was having a hard time going 80mph at laguna seca... Well i would catch up to people on the corners and they would give me the point by, but i couldn't accelerate to pass them so i bet that confused a lot of people haha. I lost against a miata on the main straight of laguna seca D: Just wanted to share that since were talking about point by's lol

[canu_50]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Your post exemplifies exactly why you belong in the point by group.

Please explain... I want to know your point on this.

The guys point me left, wich mean pass on my left. Then he swing my way, offline, to let me pass.

I might have expressed myself a little bit wrong, i am french.

Our club are running no-point by, because we encourage driver to be aware of what is going on around them.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by canu_50

Please explain... I want to know your point on this.

The guys point me left, wich mean pass on my left. Then he swing my way, offline, to let me pass.

I might have expressed myself a little bit wrong, i am french.

Our club are running no-point by, because we encourage driver to be aware of what is going on around them.

You already know that drivers in the lower experience run groups are unreliable. While they may give you a bad point-by, it is your responsibility to make a safe pass. I would recommend you drive with the assumption that EVERY other driver on track is unreliable. I drive with that assumption except when I specifically know the car that I'm trying to pass, or is trying to pass me.

Driver awareness is absolutely key, but I don't think throwing in inexperienced drivers into that situation is the safest/most effective way of promoting awareness.

Even in the open passing groups here, we still give courtesy point-bys. It is the duty of all of the driver to communicate with each other, whether its telegraphing their moves, using a point by, or giving a clear indication for a pass.

If someone is behaving badly or not listening, report them. Most HPDE groups here encourage tattling, as it prevents incidents, costs them less money to insure the event (you don't want incidents making your insurance going up), and generally promote customer satisfaction. Nobody wants to run with a group with a reputation for being unsafe.

[canu_50]

The way we work it out, the beginner (red run group) has no passing allowed. This guy was in the intermediate group(wich he never should of been but somebody might had slept when he went on track), that ran with instructor group.

You are right about the assumption, and i did make a mistake their!! Me beeing in a 450whp Audi TT racecar, i tought the car knew what he was doing beeing in the more experienced group. It wasn't too long for me to be beside him, with his 200hp car.

[mrk1]

Ive heard the anti point by argument a lot and I just don't get it. Yes I've had other drivers give crappy points, to late or don't lift but those things should be weeded out by instructors in the earlier run groups. There is also a responsibility to the passing driver to determine if its safe to pass and to give a wide berth to all cars. I know I have waved off point by's in order to wait for a wider passing zone, NH motor speedway isn't all that big.