How much of our car is Subaru vs Toyota?

[Bristecom]

That's a hard question to answer because it depends on how you look at it.

As far as I know it has:

Toyota exterior/interior design (aerodynamics, seats, steering wheel, dash/display, controls, etc)
Toyota based transmissions
Toyota based RWD drivetrain (driveshafts, differential, axle/bearings, traction control system)
Toyota based column mounted electric power steering

Subaru engine with Toyota direct injection and design influences (86 bore/stroke)
Subaru chassis design
Subaru suspension design
Subaru brakes (with Toyota/Aisin brake discs/pads and Toyota/Bosch ABS/EBD/VSC/TRAC logic)
Assembled by Subaru

So it really is a hybrid in every way. Some people like to claim that Toyota simply started the project and gave Subaru their direct injection technology while Subaru did all the rest and made all the parts but that simply isn't true. So yeah... it's not a Subaru or a Toyota, it's a Toybaru!

[Priapus]

Anyone else thinking a Supra successor built by BMW?

Supra or not, I absolutely cannot wait to see what Toyota and BMW are baking in the oven.

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by Priapus

Please correct me if I'm wrong. From what I've read about the FT86 over the years, it was inspired the Toyota Sports 500, Toyota 2000GT, and Toyota AE86.

The earlier FT86 concept in 2007 was called FT-HS (hybrid with a V6 motor) and was made 100% by Toyota. A year later, after Toyota had bought a considerable chunk of Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru's parent company), Toyota asked for Subaru's collaboration in the FT project. Subaru turned down the offer, simply because they didn't want to get involved in making a two-wheel-drive car.

6 months later, Toyota invited Subaru Engineers to a track to test drive the developmental prototype. Shortly after, Subaru agreed to collaborate.

The first FT86 Concept was shown in 2009. The hybrid V6 was replaced by Subaru's flat-4 with Toyota's D4-S injection.

Fast forward, all FT86s were made at Subaru's Manufacturing Plant, that's why you see "Subaru" stamped on almost every body part of the car.

The FT86 is a soul-child of the lesser known (at least to me) Sports 500, the legendary 2000GT (which is considered by many to be Japan's first super car), and the beloved AE86, which needs no introduction. And yes, all these 3 inspirations for the FT86 are Toyotas.

If I'm not mistaken, besides the Flat-4, Subaru also contributed the transmission, chassis, among other important parts; however, the FT86 started life as a Toyota, and even with significant contribution by Subaru, to me, it remains a Toyota.

Cheers.

Most correct and informed post here.

Originally Posted by Tromatic

Since it was built by Subaru, I'm going with nothing. I have yet to see any Toyota stamped parts in my FR-S. Who cares?

Most wrong assumption based on "stamping"

.................................................. ......................

It really should not be a question, look at everything else Subaru makes, it is not "curvy". It's obvious who (designed) it, and been well documented that Toyota was the one who invented the idea and the entire layout of the car.. And well the topic has been discussed and most often argued to death. At first as it has been mentioned Subaru did not want nothing to do with it being it was not AWD and they didn't quite agree on the platform. Until Toyota said hey bring your motor we have the prototype car to show you how it will work. Then all changed and the partnership was formed...Being that Toyota has a large stake in Subarus stock that also of course helped, and they had room on their assembly line where as Toyota did not have that space, manpower and the geographics of the Fujistu plant just made sense to...

If Subaru had not wanted to go with it, Toyota would have went ahead anyhow with another choice of power and suspension, that also has been mentioned plenty of times. THEN.... there would not have been a Subaru BRZ at all so to those who are Subaru hardcores, be thankfull IMO.., so although it is rediculous how many times it gets brought up it still is nice IMO as it gives choices to people who like either brand, although as we KNOW it is indeed basically the SAME CAR?

If I had bought a BRZ which I would have except dealership was dinks, I would have still aimed towards the original GT-86 Look and swapped out the front end for the open face etc.... Frankly I know why Toyota released this car in NA under Scions name but it would have attracted more directly under their name and all the same bits and styling as their asian GT86... IMO of course. Even though there are 3 cars all the same I still myself consider the GT86 the birth father of them all.

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

Since it was built by Subaru, I'm going with nothing. I have yet to see any Toyota stamped parts in my FR-S. Who cares?

This...

Originally Posted by fatoni

its a loaded question. i dont know why people give a fuck who built the car. you dont credit a construction worker over an architect. it can get more convoluted when you consider that you can almost interpret it as subaru working for toyota.

from an engineering standpoint (which should be the point that matters. not who stamped their name on a control arm or whatever) you have both subaru and toyota engineers in a room hammering out a car. those people are responsible for the frs/brz.

This..

Originally Posted by ZmZMWagon

60% Mazda 25% Subaru 5% Toyota 10% No one cares

BTW, I only recall ever seeing a Subaru test Mule running around

**shrug**

Mostly this...

It doesn't matter. It was a Joint project so both were involved, and we all win.

[OICU812]

For those folks that like videos...And want clarification of the (birth) of the platform. WATCH at least the first VIDEO, it is an original, official video that explains this exact question and discussion to the T!!! Straight from the man who had the first idea, who designed the car and well every ingredient of our cars..


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHVhaTNRk8E"]2013 Scion FR-S/Toyota 86 Chief Engineer Tetsuya Tada Interview - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHu4Cl3kH3o"]Toyota GT 86 Chief Engineer interview - Tada-San.mp4 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6AVXABVdyM"]The Toyota 86. Welcome to a new era in driving. - YouTube[/ame]

[Carlitoz3]

Originally Posted by Priapus

Supra or not, I absolutely cannot wait to see what Toyota and BMW are baking in the oven.

Any idea when they are going to show the concept car?

[jacobzking]

Originally Posted by fatoni

its a loaded question. i dont know why people give a fuck who built the car. you dont credit a construction worker over an architect. it can get more convoluted when you consider that you can almost interpret it as subaru working for toyota.

from an engineering standpoint (which should be the point that matters. not who stamped their name on a control arm or whatever) you have both subaru and toyota engineers in a room hammering out a car. those people are responsible for the frs/brz.

there are LOTS of reasons for being curious. for one... $27,000. i spent the money, I have the right to know who built what. second, there are companies that do some things better than others. toyota has GREAT paint, Subaru notably not just as an example. some companies use better (insert your choice of car part here), some companies don't.


i've owned a lot of nice cars over the years (the NSX with its 26 layer paint job), infiniti fx45 (its infamous oil drinking rings and wobbly rotors), acura RLs that go 160k on a single timing belt, LS430 UltraLux with bad air shocks... there are just some things that other car makers do better than others.

as far as your whole construction worker vs architect question... i dont think many people would hire a world renowned architect, and then hire day laborers to do the job. you have to look at the whole package. if you hire a great architect, then shit for labor, the architect doesn't matter. you have to look at the whole scope of the build.

[Trojan_SC]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

Since it was built by Subaru, I'm going with nothing. I have yet to see any Toyota stamped parts in my FR-S. Who cares?

The turn signal stalk says Toyota. Found that out when I changed it out for the fog light stalk. lol I was like "Holy Crap! Something in this car actually says 'Toyota'"

[forzajuve]

Thank you OICU812 ! Straight from the horses mouth (a wise/smart horse at that). Side note, not directed towards you - People, STOP MAKING these dumba** threads, go do your own research instead of continuing to start an unnecessary feud. Come to your own conclusion and discuss it with yourself, meanwhile we can enjoy not seeing this garbage. Hey thanks!

[Patrix]

So... Toyota is the father, Subaru is the mother who carry 86s and give birth.

[Priapus]

Originally Posted by Carlitoz3

Any idea when they are going to show the concept car?

No idea lol. All I know about the subject is that they aimed for a hybrid sports car, with Toyota in charge of the hybrid technology, and BMW (very likely Motorsport Division) in charge of handling and all the stuff ///M is famous for. And they made it official July 2012 by signing a contract, so it is coming. Patience, young grasshopper.

[forzajuve]

That basically says it all. Game, set and match.

Key points include:

- "According to an editor at XaCAR, an enthusiast magazine in Japan, it all started with Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda's insistence of producing an enthusiast entry-level sports car."

- "...the FR-S will come in one trim level, leaving the owner to only make decisions for color and transmission. The owner will then have the ability to personalize their FR-S by choosing from a list of accessories that can be added a la carte. They don't need to choose a trim package that will leave them with options that they might not want."

- "Apparently, Subaru had little choice but to agree to Toyota's proposal of building this vehicle"

- "Looking at it this way, it makes some sense, but it's certainly not obvious, especially to those who aren't knowledgeable about cars. The coming months will tell if this little scheme plays out the way Toyota and Subaru drew it up, but I think they should have agreed to sell the car just as a Toyota (not a Scion or a Subaru), which would have created a broader buyer base, and avoided all of the confusion."

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by Patrix

So... Toyota is the father, Subaru is the mother who carry 86s and give birth.

the 86 is the father, and the fr-s and brz are the children?

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by forzajuve

That basically says it all. Game, set and match.

Key points include:

- "According to an editor at XaCAR, an enthusiast magazine in Japan, it all started with Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda's insistence of producing an enthusiast entry-level sports car."

- "...the FR-S will come in one trim level, leaving the owner to only make decisions for color and transmission. The owner will then have the ability to personalize their FR-S by choosing from a list of accessories that can be added a la carte. They don't need to choose a trim package that will leave them with options that they might not want."

- "Apparently, Subaru had little choice but to agree to Toyota's proposal of building this vehicle"

- "Looking at it this way, it makes some sense, but it's certainly not obvious, especially to those who aren't knowledgeable about cars. The coming months will tell if this little scheme plays out the way Toyota and Subaru drew it up, but I think they should have agreed to sell the car just as a Toyota (not a Scion or a Subaru), which would have created a broader buyer base, and avoided all of the confusion."

I agree with the last part however, other then us bickeringon the net.... by having a Subaru version it reaches out to another group of loyal people who are Subaru brand loyal and that means sales and money overall. Regardless of the sales numbers, it is obvious that the BRZ is doing well on Subarus side of the spektrum and helping them out as well. Not everyone wants a 4 door STI/WRX? I was always honestly hoping that Subaru themselves would make a STI in a 2 door version, never happened and maybe never will I personally only would want a 4 door car if I had a family otherwise no need or want there....