200hp / 2700lbs - Really? - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Rickster · 03-03-2011, 05:43 PM

So I've been lurking a lot on this site, almost a year now, but been reading a lot of your posts in the meantime. I see a lot of people guessing it's going to be about 200hp and 2700lbs.

Well, here's my 2 cents, and please let me know your thoughts guys.. If this car ends up being 200hp, it would essentially be in a class verse the GTI, the Genesis Coupe 2.0T, and Miata. While that seems practical, I personally think (and HOPE), Toyota develops 2 motors for this vehicle. A 200hp motor, and a 250hp motor. I feel if Toyota does this, they can compete in 2 segments, the Miata/GTI/Genesis 2.0T, as well as the 370z, RX8, and Genesis V6.

Now if it's a 200hp version, with 2700lbs, standard 6spd manual, I'm assuming a 0-60 of a hair under 6 seconds. Maybe around 5.9. Now if we have a 250hp version, and lets say 2800lbs, we're talking about a 0-60 of 5 seconds flat. A perfect competitor for the 370z and the Genesis V6. We also have to consider, this vehicle will be coming out as a 2012 production, and the 370z and many other vehicles will be coming out with their successor in 2013, so this car can't just be comparable to the current market, but has to outperform the current versions of vehicle in order to stay competitive with their successors.

All in all, my opinion, and hope is, 2 motors being offered in the FT-86. A motor aimed at 200hp to compete against your Civic Si, Genesis 2.0T, GTI, and Miata, and a motor closer to 250hp (with an extra 100lbs or so), aimed to take on the 370z, the Genesis V6, and RX-8.

On a side note.. Imagine a 250hp, 2800lb Toyota running lets say, 11psi. An ECU reflash, an intake, an exhaust, downpipe, and upgraded intercooler.. Imagine how blistering fast that would be. Toyota has the potential to make a car as tuner friendly as the Supra, and seeing as how they've been out of the sports car market for a couple years now, and this will be their only sports car (if under the Toyota brand), this car could quickly become a big hit.

So, saying all this.. Opinions? Comments?

ichitaka05 · 03-03-2011, 06:18 PM

Welcome & Here's my 2 cents.
This is my speculation (not a fact!).
Having 2 motors is a good idea... but that's gonna raise the price up. You don't see / rarely see early $20k 200hp sports car as is, you want 250hp? I bet is it's gonna cost high end $20k or low $30k. When that happens, it's gonna be hard competition in sales & races. When that happens, a lot of ppl gonna say "Hey, for few extra $, I can buy more Hp Z/Genesis" (not saying all, but most of TQ&1/4 fans). By all means, it might be a good idea, but do Toyota wanna take a nice to compete against them?

gdi2290 · 03-03-2011, 06:20 PM

@Rickster

there has to be a low-end model to keep the ae86 heritage this doesn't mean there isn't a high-end, so yes great opinion. The only question is which one are you getting? what about Subaru? how does that model fit in the picture? also consider the tC price since its going to be a Scion

Siriusly.Andrew · 03-03-2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdi2290

its going to be a Scion

Don't spew that poison on the forums! It burns!!!

Or an alternative -- have a cheaper model in Scion (ew) and put the beauty model in Toyota. Then get a good excuse to axe Scion and call it a day.

gdi2290 · 03-03-2011, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

Don't spew that poison on the forums! It burns!!!

Or an alternative -- have a cheaper model in Scion (ew) and put the beauty model in Toyota. Then get a good excuse to axe Scion and call it a day.

believe me I do not like Scion. I will quickly replace it with a Toyota Emblem or keep the clean look.

what if there were three models: Scion, Toyota, and Subaru
Low Mid and High :0

ichitaka05 · 03-03-2011, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdi2290

believe me I do not like Scion and I will quicky remove it and replace it with e Toyota Emblem or just none

what if there were three models Scion, Toyota, and Subaru
Low Mid and High :0

Scion (low)... and which one gonna be mid & high? JPN Subie quality is high... but US Subie... well let's not go there.

gdi2290 · 03-03-2011, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Scion (low)... and which one gonna be mid & high? JPN Subie quality is high... but US Subie... well let's not go there.

yeah I was suggesting Scion(Low) Toyota(Mid) and Subaru(High)
Subaru wont have their model until spring of next year though

ichitaka05 · 03-03-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdi2290

yeah I was suggesting Scion(Low) Toyota(Mid) and Subaru(High)
Subaru wont have their model until spring of next year though

so like this?
Scion: $21k~up (170hp/140tq NA)
Toyota: $25k~up (200hp/165tq NA)
Subaru: $27k~up (260hp/205q Turbo)

Is that sound reasonable?

Aki · 03-03-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rickster

Well, here's my 2 cents, and please let me know your thoughts guys.. If this car ends up being 200hp, it would essentially be in a class verse the GTI, the Genesis Coupe 2.0T, and Miata. While that seems practical, I personally think (and HOPE), Toyota develops 2 motors for this vehicle. A 200hp motor, and a 250hp motor. I feel if Toyota does this, they can compete in 2 segments, the Miata/GTI/Genesis 2.0T, as well as the 370z, RX8, and Genesis V6.

Well nobody knows that it's going to be 200hp, that's just the guess (since it's a convenient number). I'm thinking it could even be 180hp.

Considering how the market's changing, I just don't see it as a practical. I think people aren't seeing just how hostile the market is to sports cars. Mazda's stopping sales of the RX8 not only due to emissions but also floundering sales. Ditto for the 370Z. The S2k stopped production, because sales just didn't support it (granted it was long in the legs). Mitsubishi's pondering killing off the Evo. In light of that, I think it'd be dumb of Toyota to push for a 250hp variant off the bat.

If they do, I'm thinking they'd maybe boost the 2.0 version, I'm doubting they'd use the 2.5. And it'd probably be after gauging sales of the 2.0 N/A. Offering two different motors drives up cost a lot, especially if it's not going to simply borrow from an existing powerplant.

People keep bringing up the Supra as though it's the holy grail, but let's face it, sales of that car sucked. 3,500 at its peak, a bit more than 11,000 throughout its six-year life. From a sales perspective, it wasn't a successful car, however much you want to put the 2JZ on a pedestal. Hence it makes no sense for Toyota to model the FT86 after a failed sports car. In the end it doesn't matter how much a small group of forum people like the car--it's the bottom line that counts.

gdi2290 · 03-03-2011, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

so like this?
Scion: $21k~up (170hp/140tq NA)
Toyota: $25k~up (200hp/165tq NA)
Subaru: $27k~up (260hp/205q Turbo)

Is that sound reasonable?

yeah that looks good, but I think Subaru will price theres higher. from what I heard its NA and that they only said it is possible to put turbo.

lets make a quick chart to help us
In order by price

Scion Tc: $18.9k~up
Base: $18.9k
HP: (hp/tq)
MPG:

Scion Ft: $21k~up
Base: $21k
HP: (170hp/140tq)
MPG:40
Turbo: $22??
HP: (hp/tq)
MPG:

Toyota FT: $25k~up
Base: $21k
HP: (250hp/tq)
MPG:
Turbo: $22??
HP: (hp/tq)
MPG:

Subaru FT: $30k~up??
Base: $30k??
HP: (260hp/205tq)
MPG:
Turbo: $32??
HP: (300hp/tq)
MPG:

Subaru already has a sports car their WRX so they have to price it differently than the FT

wanna help me out on the numbers and what should be in the chart like what cars to consider

BoostJunkie · 03-03-2011, 07:00 PM

What if they did the good model as a Lexus..... Curve ball!!

gdi2290 · 03-03-2011, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoostJunkie

What if they did the good model as a Lexus..... Curve ball!!

they said their IS is going to be a stretched FT-86 so in a sense that is true

ichitaka05 · 03-03-2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdi2290

yeah that looks good, but I think Subaru will price theres higher. from what I heard its NA and that they only said it is possible to put turbo.

lets make a quick chart to help us
In order by price

Scion Tc: $18.9k~up
Base: $18.9k
HP: (hp/tq)
MPG:

Scion Ft: $21k~up
Base: $21k
HP: (170hp/140tq)
MPG:40
Turbo: $22??
HP: (hp/tq)
MPG:

Toyota FT: $25k~up
Base: $21k
HP: (250hp/tq)
MPG:
Turbo: $22??
HP: (hp/tq)
MPG:

Subaru FT: $30k~up??
Base: $30k??
HP: (260hp/205tq)
MPG:
Turbo: $32??
HP: (300hp/tq)
MPG:

Subaru already has a sports car their WRX so they have to price it differently than the FT

wanna help me out on the numbers and what should be in the chart like what cars to consider

I highly doubt Toyota base turbo ver gonna be starting at $22k. I think more north like $25k

Jordo! · 03-03-2011, 07:12 PM

There's a 2013 Z in the works -- it just might be a hybrid.

Last I heard the FT-86 is going to be ligh 20's (~28K), so top of the line approaching low to mid 30's is fine.

Anyway, it's going be competing with every sporty car in that price range, so it better have an option with at least some power.

03-03-2011, 05:43 PM	#1
Rickster Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Drives: IS350, 350Z, 335i Location: DC Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	200hp / 2700lbs - Really? So I've been lurking a lot on this site, almost a year now, but been reading a lot of your posts in the meantime. I see a lot of people guessing it's going to be about 200hp and 2700lbs. Well, here's my 2 cents, and please let me know your thoughts guys.. If this car ends up being 200hp, it would essentially be in a class verse the GTI, the Genesis Coupe 2.0T, and Miata. While that seems practical, I personally think (and HOPE), Toyota develops 2 motors for this vehicle. A 200hp motor, and a 250hp motor. I feel if Toyota does this, they can compete in 2 segments, the Miata/GTI/Genesis 2.0T, as well as the 370z, RX8, and Genesis V6. Now if it's a 200hp version, with 2700lbs, standard 6spd manual, I'm assuming a 0-60 of a hair under 6 seconds. Maybe around 5.9. Now if we have a 250hp version, and lets say 2800lbs, we're talking about a 0-60 of 5 seconds flat. A perfect competitor for the 370z and the Genesis V6. We also have to consider, this vehicle will be coming out as a 2012 production, and the 370z and many other vehicles will be coming out with their successor in 2013, so this car can't just be comparable to the current market, but has to outperform the current versions of vehicle in order to stay competitive with their successors. All in all, my opinion, and hope is, 2 motors being offered in the FT-86. A motor aimed at 200hp to compete against your Civic Si, Genesis 2.0T, GTI, and Miata, and a motor closer to 250hp (with an extra 100lbs or so), aimed to take on the 370z, the Genesis V6, and RX-8. On a side note.. Imagine a 250hp, 2800lb Toyota running lets say, 11psi. An ECU reflash, an intake, an exhaust, downpipe, and upgraded intercooler.. Imagine how blistering fast that would be. Toyota has the potential to make a car as tuner friendly as the Supra, and seeing as how they've been out of the sports car market for a couple years now, and this will be their only sports car (if under the Toyota brand), this car could quickly become a big hit. So, saying all this.. Opinions? Comments?

03-03-2011, 06:18 PM	#2
ichitaka05 Site Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Drives: ichi 86 Project Location: Middle of No where Posts: 20,966 Thanks: 7,664 Thanked 19,052 Times in 8,327 Posts Mentioned: 677 Post(s) Tagged: 27 Thread(s)	Welcome & Here's my 2 cents. This is my speculation (not a fact!). Having 2 motors is a good idea... but that's gonna raise the price up. You don't see / rarely see early $20k 200hp sports car as is, you want 250hp? I bet is it's gonna cost high end $20k or low $30k. When that happens, it's gonna be hard competition in sales & races. When that happens, a lot of ppl gonna say "Hey, for few extra $, I can buy more Hp Z/Genesis" (not saying all, but most of TQ&1/4 fans). By all means, it might be a good idea, but do Toyota wanna take a nice to compete against them? __________________

03-03-2011, 07:00 PM	#11
BoostJunkie RaggedEdge Autosports Join Date: Aug 2010 Drives: 97 APU Supra Location: Houston Posts: 872 Thanks: 1 Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	What if they did the good model as a Lexus..... Curve ball!! __________________ Red JZA80 APU Supra 800whp White 07 Turbo Si 411whp RIP

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Project Engineer hints at weight of roughly 2700lbs	zigzagz94	Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum	50	03-09-2011 05:20 AM

03-03-2011, 07:12 PM	#14
Jordo! Enjoy it, destroy it. Join Date: Oct 2009 Drives: Datsun Racing Hen Location: Blank Generation Posts: 820 Thanks: 6 Thanked 61 Times in 48 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	There's a 2013 Z in the works -- it just might be a hybrid. Last I heard the FT-86 is going to be ligh 20's (~28K), so top of the line approaching low to mid 30's is fine. Anyway, it's going be competing with every sporty car in that price range, so it better have an option with at least some power.

User Name		Remember Me?
Password