Drift-Office : 5-Way SC Shootout! (ESC vs HKS vs Innovate vs Vortech vs JRSC vs KWSC)

[Drift-Office]

Because you all asked for it!

Okay - so just like the UEL shootout previously, I've compiled a set of results which I feel are indicative of this current round of FI SC offerings. Again, given the conditions :6MT Vehicles

• Similar Octane
• Similar Tuning Philosophy
• Similar Exhaust Components (Aftermarket CBEs at the very least!)
• Tuning / Calibration - similar ignition / cam profiles
• Dyno Facility @ 18FT AGL (Sea Level)
• Cooler Temperatures @ 50 - 60

This is based on my own opinion, given what I've done in my own facility on the dyno while tuning in-house, live. For this thread though, I'm going to break it up into 2 groups :

1. 0 ~ 8 PSI Setups
2. 10 PSI Pulleys

So for the first group, we've got the following line up :

• Phantom ESC with Stock Header : >>> Reference Link Here <<<
• HKS with PPE Header : >>> Reference Link Here <<<
• Innovate with JDL UEL Header : >>> Reference Link Here <<<

Based on the results, it's pretty evident that the HKS with the restrictor plate outshines them all, and so does it's price.



^^^ What's interesting here is that they all make about the same PEAK Torque (~180 PSI) regardless of their boost at WIDE OPEN THROTTLE (WOT). Clearly, the HKS with the header is breathing better than the non-intercooled Innovate / Sprintex SC setup. As discussed elsewhere in this forum, the Innovate SC lacks the ability to monitor post blower temps, or a way to log boost outside checking the logs, hence there's no boost plot on the dyno sheet. I will say that the numbers are in line with what we've seen here and elsewhere. The Phantom ESC @ WOT shows a fair bit of promise and might be the ticket for some, just not me unfortunately.

Onto the next comparo, we've got Vortech, JRSC and KWSC. These 3 would be the bread and butter of the GT86 SC market for the foreseeable future. They've got good fitment, great quality parts and a kit price that is comparable to each other right at the $4k mark.

Vortech : http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45835
JRSC Kit : http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52992
KWSC Kit : http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53538



^^^ Not too much to say here, other than these 3 kits are all very well suited for a multitude of purposes, including SHOW since they all have very nice and attractive (read : BLING) features that stand out in the engine bay. For the money, it does look like it comes down to the JRSC and KWSC kit. After all, they are very similar in design, right down to their SD (Speed Density) calibrations that are required.

So really, if I had to pick one, my choice would be that of function over form, coupled with a price to performance ratio that's rated equally high. That choice would be *drum roll please...*

The KraftWerks SC offering.



It should be noted that I can't fault Jackson Racing's offering much either - it's essentially the same. We did however, tune both the JR and KW SC its on the dyno at the same time within days of each other repeatedly and found that the charge temps were rising consistently higher (slightly, 3-5 degrees more) between runs in the JR kits. This might imply that the intercoolers are more efficient on the KWSC. Let's be clear here : I am in no way saying that the JR intercooler isn't efficient. I'm just saying it's marginally less efficient than that of the KW offering. Despite KW's 'noisy' cog issue (which they're working on) - cooling would make all the difference in a performance shootout.

While on the topic of cooling, this brings me to two other notable points.



^^^ 1) Remember that cold snap we had in Jan? Yeah, that "hell freezes over" weather? Well, the ambient temps in our dyno cell were close to freezing and we did a Vortech 10PSI calibration. This was the result (with 92 Octane). I've plotted it along side the other VT 10 PSI run with the HKS EL header for comparison but you now can see how temps can really skew your results. I didn't put this into the lot simply because I didn't feel that it was indicative of the kit and it certainly wasn't repeatable in warmer temperatures.



^^^ This was an excruciatingly trying kit and amidst frustration following the install of the intercooler (and Raceseng 70mm pulley) for the Innovate kit, I had experienced all sorts of issues (or quirks) which we now know to be related to using an aftermarket OMNI MAP sensor. After conferring with @moto-mike , I was glad to know that I wasn't alone in this and being drained, I had Moto-East throw in one of their E-Tunes and finished the calibration after some logging on the dyno.

The point to be made in this last case : More costs (intercooler and pulley) and for a mere 20WHP and 15#s TQ difference makes this one of the worst price to performance options out there right now. Given the prices of the kit with the intercooler today, you'll be in turbo territory and hence have a wider and better range of performance offerings at your disposal. If you however choose this kit, I'd strongly suggest you hit @moto-mike up for one of his awesome dyno-proven calibrations!

My 2 cents, and take it for what it's worth!

Regards!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[glamcem]

yesss

[CSG Mike]

What were the peak charge temps you saw for each kit?

Also, is there any reason the Jackson Racing kit redlines at 7k vs the 7.4k on the Vortech and Kraftwerks?

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

What were the peak charge temps you saw for each kit?

I'll have to look over the logs but I remember it to be 3-5 more at the end of the runs. And this was done in low 50-ish degree weather...


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[F1point4]

Bob, thanks again for the visibility into the kits, love seeing your posts. May I ask why the kW/jr rotrex kits fall so hard around 7k?

Cheers,
Victor

[TRD_07]

^Looks like both the Vortech and Jackson kits were running a HKS EL header except the KW.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by F1point4

Bob, thanks again for the visibility into the kits, love seeing your posts. May I ask why the kW/jr rotrex kits fall so hard around 7k?

Cheers,
Victor

As the two Rotrex units are the same between the kits, they should perform rather similarly. There is no perfect compressor - I'd say they're beginning to max out. IIRC, at least one of the two companies already said they built the kit in mind with the possibility for a larger Rotrex unit. The included units are a smaller sized Rotrex.

Originally Posted by TRD_07

^Looks like both the Vortech and Jackson kits were running a HKS EL header except the KW.

That's what it looks like. I could not find evidence of a HKS EL or other header in the link Bob provided to the original dyno of the KW kit. Interesting that the same blower (KW and JR use the same Rotrex), on the same dyno, make similar power albeit one has a header and one does not.

Still want to see these SC kits with the Nameless header if possible...looks like it'd fit with the JR.

[TRD_07]

I could not find evidence of a HKS EL or other header in the link Bob provided to the original dyno. Interesting that the same blower (KW and JR use the same Rotrex), on the same dyno, make similar power albeit one has a header and one does not.

Looks like its stated in the dyno graph itself unless that's an error?

[OrbitalEllipses]

My bad, I was talking about the KraftWerks kit - let me edit that for clarity.

[digital_assassin]

If the JR kit is Sam's car then it does have a header. Cant recall if HKS.

Nevermind - listed on the sheet

[stockysnail]

For those curious to know what was on the Innovate kitted car, just look at my build thread in my signature as that was my car. Frustrating to find out all the 'quirks' about the kit but I bought it used for $1200 less than retail so I'm not too disappointed. Bob's link is to my pre/post intercooler/70mm pulley with tune results.

And Bob was great. If his shop was closer I'd visit all the time.

[Model Citizen]

from what i remember reading the jr kit had header and full exhaust, car was catless. Kw kit was on stock header, op, fp (hi flow cat), and catback.

[Calum]

The intercooled innovate kit looks great until about 5k rpm. I wish we could get some more info on the 210+ to see if it can keep up with the others past that point.

Also, I'd love to see what else the HKS SC kit could do. Evasive has posted some dynos in the 300 whp range but it's hard to compare with other kits without have comparisons like this. Also the new updated HKS looked to have even better output than the first version.

There's still too much in the pipe line for me to make a decision yet.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Calum

There's still too much in the pipe line for me to make a decision yet.

Takes ~4 years for everything to come to market and get documented on a new platform.