|
Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions Discuss all other cars and automotive news here. |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
12-17-2012, 02:42 PM | #99 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: 2010 Cooper S, 74 Beetle
Location: Norway
Posts: 726
Thanks: 239
Thanked 252 Times in 124 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Its been some time since I was in the back of an E30, but I can not remember having zero space on top of my shoes and having to take them of my shoes to get something that resembled comfort. I think the E30 generally was more spacious in the back. Some E30 owners might have a more accurate description. I cant comment on the 2002. Never been in one, love the looks. Either way, I think the GT86 would have to be a couple of more cm longer as well. As for weight. The F21 118I is 1370kg, EU weight. If my numbers are right. That includes a driver at 75kg and 90% full tank. So the car is 1295kg with a lot of fuel. Take out 25liters of fuel and you get 1270kg. Which equals:2800 pounds If the car should be noticeably lighter it would have the become less premium, throw of safety equipment or start getting a lot of aluminium/CF parts.. That would not make it competitive against rivals in terms of.. anything.. It could maybe get more special made lighter parts, instead of sharing lots of stuff with the 3-series drivetrain, but that would ruin the cost/cheap part. Quote:
Comparing 1-series (1.gen) against its FWD rivals it was heavier, less practical, and more cramped. Especially in the back. Mainly due to its RWD layout. 2.gen fixed the space issue and got larger, while shedding off weight. Its getting criticized a little for space. BMW will probably (/sadly)"fix" that with FWD in the future. That will also fix weight and efficiency... Not sure if you are familiar with the EU market. But 7. gen VW Golf is not considered a premium car. Its the best selling car in Europe and have been for near 30 years, and its interior is almost in the same league as the "Premium interior" in the 1-series.. It probably exceeds 1.gen 1-series. Some interior snobs could still complain about the new F20/21 1-series interior being a bit cheap compared BMWs and Audis higher up in their lines, even if its is highly improved. I don't think BMW could have pulled out the "cheaper" or smaller "card" and had the success they are having with the 1-series. Lighter? I specified above, but the new car with a small engine is reasonable light. Again, remove its comforts and it would not weigh that much more compared to the 86. But it would have 100% better seat space in the back. Of course that will not be the case when you put 240+/320hp torque monsters in them. They also need drivetrain and stopping power for that stuff. Blame your fellow americans for buying large cars, otherwise BMW would probably have sold.... 114I 116I 118I 125I 116D 118D 120D 125D ...in the states as well. Reality over here is that a BMW 114I is not that much more in base price compared to a VW Golf with equivalent engine. Its just easier to make it more expensive with "premium" options.. I believe the price and badge of a BMW were a lot more premium than a VW car in the 80s. Today, the prices and differences are not that high when comparing "similar" models. Many "normal cars" have become quite premium. The sales numbers of the new 1-series just shows that BMW knows how to make cars for the public. Even if most online people seem to criticize it looks it gets great sales numbers. Personally I have some issues with it, but overall its a great car. Quote:
As for the company that built reasonable size/weight cars.. it is still there... Cars have just changed.. BMW still use the same recipe they used when making the E30s. -Typical family car sized car, check -RWD, check -Sporty handling, check -Great engines, check -More premium compared to average cars, check I dont know your definition of German Buicks. But you should watch this clip from Top Gear latest DVD. 18.15 BMW M3 22.25 BMW M5 vs old buick (Gymkhana) M3 is not a buick in my eyes. If the M5 is a German Buick then I would not mind having a German Buick in my garage.. ___ I do think BMW will make the same "mistake" and make the 2-series Coupe heavier than the hatchback once again.. hope im wrong. |
|||
12-17-2012, 03:23 PM | #100 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,584
Thanks: 1,376
Thanked 3,890 Times in 2,032 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This is NOT the same company that gave us the 2002 and the E30 M3... This is a purveyor of oversized/overwrought/overweight luxury cars with a few minor nods to "sportiness". Quote:
Quote:
The current BMW lineup is all but irrelevant to me. I could easily afford one, but I'd honestly rather have an FR-S or BRZ. BMW could learn a lot from these cars... |
|||||||
The Following User Says Thank You to ZDan For This Useful Post: | RaceR (12-17-2012) |
12-17-2012, 05:05 PM | #101 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: 2010 Cooper S, 74 Beetle
Location: Norway
Posts: 726
Thanks: 239
Thanked 252 Times in 124 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
For the sake of discussion, I just end up taking the logic/rational way of thinking in stead of writing the stuff you do! Ill just say one thing about the stuff you said. yes, you would like the car better if it was a NA 2.0. But it would not be a success, unless they managed to make if much more efficient than the 86. The main market for the 1-series is in Europe. The contingent that aim for engines producing half the amount of CO2 of a typical 2.0L NA engine. BMW would have shot themselves in the foot by doing that. The efficient engines are a part of BMWs success over here. All competition basically have turbo engines. They would not have a chance if they went the normal NA route. Its just the way things are in EU. Some countries are worse than others. Im from one of the worst, I know.. Here is proof. Ill show some insanity: BMW E81 116D (diesel, the work of satan, and a car that is quite "heavy" considering the 1.gen 1-series was not light and diesel engines add to that) In 2009-2011 those engines had 115hp. But there was also a 90hp version. 90hp BMW in a new 2011 model BMW is something for you US guys to chew on.. :P Anyway.. Those engines are based on the same 2l diesel engine that sits in the more powerful diesel versions. A used car from 2010/2011 with very low milage are half the price of a GT86 in Norway. A little flash device from ESS-tuning. BOM! 180hp/420NM torque Add Quaife LSD. Yes, these guys have to almost every BMW. Add stiffer rear swaybar and some adjustable dampers. KW V3? Add lightweight brakes.. Result: FUN new low millage toy at a reasonable price. Id much rather do that on F20/F21 114I which have a much better chassis, and a petrol engine. But there are issues with the new BMWs. 1- Have not come across a way to get engine mapping into sport mode when DSC off. Default is comfort, which is not responsive at all. 2- No chip to make it into a more powerful 118I. Yes, I could just buy the 118I and maybe do a little tuning if desirable. 3-E-LSD are activated when DSC is off. It would probably not interfer with when a proper locking diff are installed, but Id feel better not running into the risk. A dream OEM car would probably be more of hardcore "baby" m-car with around 230hp, and 4 usable seats (not much larger than the 86) Due to taxes, I would have chosen turbo and minimzed lag as much as possible. 1.5l high reving 3-cylinder engine (or some light weight KERS hybrid stuff that the GT86 might get). Give me a OS-giken style diff with 100% locking capacity too. It could be the baby M2 CSL, just like the E30 318is was the baby "m" car.. Fat "proper M-cars" could have more "sophisticated" stuff.. The only reason why 3-series are so fat is because of its size and engine, and not focusing enough on weight from the start. F21 M135I weight 290 pounds more than F21 118I. A performance 118is/218is (CSL) could easily get down to 2700pounds. A 2-series could as well if made right.. There are so many opportunities. I have also dreamed about a Z2, maybe named Z22. A compact Z-series car with 2+2 layout. That would not mess up the normal BMW lineup. The car would be a mix of a 218IS CSL and a GT86. BMW will probably make a Z2 with fwd. |
|
12-18-2012, 04:30 PM | #102 | |||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,584
Thanks: 1,376
Thanked 3,890 Times in 2,032 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not a fan of diesels, anyway, though some over here are. Power/weight like you suggest, it just isn't there. But a highish boost 1.5 gasoline engine, could make upwards of 300hp and be quite efficient, no? Quote:
Unless this "sport mode" is something else... Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||||||
12-18-2012, 05:55 PM | #103 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: 2010 Cooper S, 74 Beetle
Location: Norway
Posts: 726
Thanks: 239
Thanked 252 Times in 124 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Quote:
-Eco Pro -Comfort -Sport -Sport+ This little mode changing button can change the following aspects of the car: -Engine mapping (engine response, and maybe even a little change in power) -Throttle pedal response -Steering response (I think it basically just changes the weight of the steering. But it depend on the options) -Suspension -Automatic gearbox -If you have a car with normal suspension, not adaptive (sport) suspension. It will not change suspension. You can have normal m-sport suspension without any electronic stuff. -Manual gearbox will not be affected by the electronic button -Steering, if you go for the normal steering it will not be affected by electronics. Not sure if every country have that option though. There are two "options" you can get on the steering. So, if the car is made as simple as possible. The little driving mode button will only change engine response and throttle pedal response. You have a traction control button with two modes: DTC, press and its into traction mode. Nice for snow and stuff i believe. No DSC (if you hold the button for 5 sec). Problem is, this is basically comfort mode (with E-diff) and no stability control. Why on earth would they make it go into "comfort mode" when you turn for the DSC compelety off? -Eco Pro -Comfort _____DTC (traction mode, -comfort setting) -Sport -Sport+ (same as sport, but with less traction control, you can get a LITTLE sideways _____NO DSC (sideways fun and do whatever, but with comfort driving dymanics) So, lets say you want to do some track driving. Sport+ = Great for going fast, but not a proper track-mode since electronics can interfer if loosing grip. Useless for sideways fun and drifting. DSC OFF= You can now go sideways and do whatever you want. But not good for the track with sluggish throttle response/engine mapping. AutoX would be useless if you were competing. You would loose acceleration out of every corner.. That is how it is with current cars as far as I know..Im not sure if this is a problem all over the world, nor if the M135I work that way. I know the M135I can adjust some mode stuff that you can not on the normal cars.. So its better, and maybe even it can be adjusted perfect.. Proper M-cars should work fine.. I know there is a ton of stuff that is possible to get reprogrammed with a computer, free software and some OBDII cable. But not sure if anyone have found out that stuff yet.. The cars are still quite new, and the more hardcore people will probably just buy M-cars. It is certainly something Im going to check if buying a new "f"-series BMW. Those things are what can be problems with modern cars, and a thing that might get worse in the future.. Coding/programing may be something that gets normal in the tuning process for enthusiats.. who knows.. I know there are people in germany who are quite good at it. There are even pure "coding/programming" forums for BMWs. So there is hope, and help, and some cool stuff that can be done... Previous 1-series just need an LSD, turn of DSC and your good to go.. But its heavier and not as good as the new models in most aspects.. |
||
12-18-2012, 08:11 PM | #104 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: 2010 Cooper S, 74 Beetle
Location: Norway
Posts: 726
Thanks: 239
Thanked 252 Times in 124 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Sport Auto Clocks BMW M135i Around Nurburgring in 8:18
Quote:
|
|
01-15-2013, 11:32 AM | #105 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: 2017 Subaru BRZ Perf Pack 6MT
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,048
Thanks: 1,949
Thanked 1,945 Times in 1,150 Posts
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
I interrupt this technobabble to bring you... pics of my E30!
Gotta love 26xxlbs, 5spd Getrag, LSD, 134hp and 30mpg in an affordable package
__________________
Current: 2005 Porsche 911 Carrera S 6MT Previous: 2 BRZ's, 997 C2S, C5 RS6, C4 S6, B8 S4, GDB STi, S30 240Z, FC3S RX-7 TII, AW11/SW20 MR2, E30 318is/325i, etc. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Turbowned For This Useful Post: | RaceR (01-22-2013) |
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Nashville talk... | bestwheelbase | Southeast | 719 | 05-12-2022 01:11 PM |
Soo yeaaa... (Baseball Talk) | JDMenrique | Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] | 0 | 10-20-2012 08:18 AM |
Talk to me about sumps | ICantAffordAnLFA | Engine, Exhaust, Transmission | 8 | 09-28-2012 04:15 PM |
Dealer talk | Zoomie | BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics | 6 | 05-23-2012 12:38 AM |
Lets talk suspension | Midship Runabout | Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum | 42 | 05-20-2010 12:51 AM |