2017 Toyota 86 - new name, styling, and more power

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by MJones_RB

Dumb question: where did the turn signals go?

Not dumb at all; I thought exactly the same thing. Also, where do the fog lights go (assuming you want them)?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by cyde01

and the sum total and nature of the changes of a few suspension tweaks, buttons on the steering, hill assist, and an ugly bumper convinced you they're gonna focus on the majority and enthusiasts are slowly gonna be ignored?

i don't wanna be annoying and keep arguing the same point without adding new input, but you don't think that sounds a little ridiculous? lol

Nope I don't. You are downplaying those changes and keeping them separate. No they are not huge and may seem independent of each other but they all point the car in the same direction. I repeat I am not saying we will wake up tomorrow with a whole new car but there is a very evident trend at play here. Maybe you don't see it but I do (and I know others do as well).


I hope I am wrong and just talking out of may ass here but 40 years as a car guy and 28 years in Tier 1 auto parts manufacturing has given me a bit of insight and this is what I see. Not asking for you or anybody else to believe me and not running around with a sign saying "the end is nigh" just throwing my experience and thoughts into the ring for anybody that wants to listen. Everybody is welcome to say "meh crazy old man" and walk away giving me weird looks if they wish.


I am also sort of the odd man out on this forum since I didn't follow the development, worship the developers and could not care less about the "heritage" of the car. I stumbled across it by accident in 2015, checked it out, bought it and loved it. All the hype and marketing have never influenced me (you have to actually know it exists for that to happen) and therefore I do not have the emotional attachment that you and others have to the car, the history and Tada.

[KalbiCool88]

Power on this car to me is irrelevant as I plan to go FI as many have. I think the original intention was to have a solid base to start off with and let the owners make it their own.

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[nyfries]

Originally Posted by KalbiCool88

For folks like me living in "The City", hill-assist is a god-send. Well, at least it is in San Francisco. And people get lazy here.

We always had hill assist. It's call the handbrake

[cyde01]

sorry guys. i'm not angry, not offended nor do i mean to offend anyone here. some reactions just seem a little overblown to me... lol

[KalbiCool88]

Originally Posted by nyfries

We always had hill assist. It's call the handbrake

Some are lazier than others.

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[KalbiCool88]

I'm waiting for all things autonomous. Hang on to your mechanical treasures!

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[cyde01]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I am also sort of the odd man out on this forum since I didn't follow the development, worship the developers and could not care less about the "heritage" of the car. I stumbled across it by accident in 2015, checked it out, bought it and loved it. All the hype and marketing have never influenced me (you have to actually know it exists for that to happen) and therefore I do not have the emotional attachment that you and others have to the car, the history and Tada.

lol it's not even an emotional attachment. for the people that followed the history and development, it's the fact that throughout the ENTIRE process, for years and years, we were skeptical and kept asking over and over "is it really gonna cater to us enthusiasts?" "are you really gonna get it right?" and over and over and over for years Tada-san and even Akio Toyoda himself kept saying "yes it is gonna cater to enthusiasts" and "this is why." the car came out, and enthusiasts loved it, and still throughout the process we kept asking "is it gonna stay an enthusiast car?" "are you gonna dumb it down?" and they responded "no we're not gonna dumb it down." "these are the driver focused changes we are making for enthusiasts." and after several years of seeing that and hearing Toyoda saying the entire company is gonna focus more on adding enthusiast products and that they're gonna rein in the bean counters, i guess you start to actually believe them. sure, some people may dismiss that as marketing hype, but it's not a blind emotional attachment or anything. they really backed up their talk when you look at all the different engineering decisions they made. someone posted that this latest update also has re-thought spot welding and reinforcing the unibody in various different areas to improve cornering feel on the track. i mean, you don't do that if you're just in it to cater to the masses and make a profit. these guys are hardcore enthusiasts themselves and most of what they've done back up their talk. but when a couple changes happen that aren't enthusiast friendly, immediately the skepticism comes roaring back. i know i'm not gonna convince anyone different, but coming from that context the latest round of skepticism seems rather silly. but no one knows the future, so anything could happen. it is what it is.

[KalbiCool88]

It certainly is what it is.

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[wireman957]

My God! Haven't we flogged this molly long enough? Not one of us have seen one in person yet, let alone driven one. Why don't we just chill and wait to see what the damn thing is really like? If it sucks, it sucks and we have the good one. If it's an actual improvement overall, then so be it! I'd bet that at least a certain number of folks who have already made their minds up that it's going to be horrible will be among the first to drive it and sing its praises when it does show up.

[cyde01]

except this is ft86, where we analyze everything to death before we even test it ourselves and where pessimism reigns supreme! lol

[CatScan]

The 86 is an aberration in the modern car world. I don't think it would ever have gotten out of the design studios if it had not been for the Scion brand being able to take a chance where Toyota would not. TC is absolutely correct in that this car has been "taken within the system" and is now managed by people who are excited by the Prius. Every iteration will drift farther and farther from the original design intent.

[CatScan]

Originally Posted by cyde01

sorry guys. i'm not angry, not offended nor do i mean to offend anyone here. some reactions just seem a little overblown to me... lol

I find your lack of cynicism disturbing. You must be under 30.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by cyde01

lol it's not even an emotional attachment. for the people that followed the history and development, it's the fact that throughout the ENTIRE process, for years and years, we were skeptical and kept asking over and over "is it really gonna cater to us enthusiasts?" "are you really gonna get it right?" and over and over and over for years Tada-san and even Akio Toyoda himself kept saying "yes it is gonna cater to enthusiasts" and "this is why." the car came out, and enthusiasts loved it, and still throughout the process we kept asking "is it gonna stay an enthusiast car?" "are you gonna dumb it down?" and the responded "no we're not gonna dumb it down." "these are the driver focused changes we are making for enthusiasts." and after several years of seeing that and hearing Toyoda saying the entire company is gonna focus more on adding enthusiast products, i guess you start to actually believe them. sure, some people may dismiss that as marketing hype, but it's not a blind emotional attachment or anything. they really backed up their talk when you look at all the different engineering decisions they made. someone posted that this latest update also has re-thought spot welding and reinforcing the unibody in various different areas to improve cornering feel on the track. i mean, you don't do that if you're just in it to cater to the masses and make a profit. these guys are hardcore enthusiasts themselves and most of what they've done back up their talk. but when a couple changes happen that aren't enthusiast friendly, immediately the skepticism comes roaring back. i know i'm not gonna convince anyone different, but coming from that context the latest round of skepticism seems rather silly. but no one knows the future, so anything could happen. it is what it is.

First off I would like to thank you for a good friendly debate that did not resort to name calling and unrelated slurs as the primary argument. It is refreshing for a change!
We are on total polar opposite thought processes here but I do not feel that my thoughts are "silly". Yes they delivered the car they said. It did OK but they are not a car enthusiast charity but a for profit company and they need to broaden the market or kill the car. They will not broaden the market by making it a better performer and I know that runs counter to the what the population of this forum thinks but this forum is a drop in the bucket of the car buying public. It is time for it to evolve and that will take a bit but evolve it will. We may not like that evolution but if it keeps the car alive long enough then that evolution may swing back in our direction. I do not think I am being sceptical at all and although you say you are not influenced by the hype you used some of that hype to support your case.
The reality may end up being someplace between our two stands/theories in which case we can both be "right". We will know in the next 5 years or so.