McLaren 720S vs Mazda MX-5: Which is the most fun?

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

I don't believe so, other wise why upgrade ftom a NA to a ND, or AE86 to FT86.

Why did I build a RB25/30, why did I turbo my 86, why did I buy ZX6R, because fun, because skids, because turbo whoosshhy noises.

If I had a ton of cash to waste on a car, would you call me insecure if I got a McLaren, or Ferrari, or Lamborghini? Would the McLaren make me feel better about myself?, well, it would mean that I'm more successful than I currently am, so yes, yes it would.

I would drive down the street grinning from ear to ear, just like when I'm boosting along in my 86, because fun, just more expensive fun.

Like lobsters, delicious lobsters, I could get by eating other cheaper seafood, but lobsters are delicious, am I insecure because I can afford to eat lobsters whenever I want, when others cannot?

My perception of these type of questions is it typically is the jaded people without money saying that the cheap cars are all you need, and if you want more than a cheap car you are insecure and buy stuff to feel better.

But then I'm old and jadded myself and think some people, from all classes, both rich and poor, are self righteous idiots who thrive on complaining about other peoples choices and levels of financial success.

Kill the poor, eat the rich.

TL;DR my 50cc Yamaha jog scooter is just as much fun as my Kawasaki ZX6R, am I more righteous on the Yamaha? Am I insecure on the Kwaka? Do people who worry about what I do need medication?

Are these some of the great unanswered questions facing humanity, If so, I pity humanity

LOL sorry man, don't mean to come across as offensive to those who worked hard to get a car of their dreams (or anything of their dreams). I'm sort of getting back to a comment made by previous poster about Mclaren drivers not comparing their cars to an MX-5 which reeks heavy insecurity issues.

You raise a good point about being a happy owner of a Mclaren in it's own right but this is because Mclaren is a "special" car and that special feeling is what will give the extra "fun factor". I can relate to that completely and wouldn't call that insecurity issues.

In a way, say this hypothetical question to remove all side factors such as that "cool factor" you get from a Mclaren, say this question:

You have two exactly the same priced Mclarens or same priced MX-5s and same everything except one has 700hp+ Dual clunch and gets 0 to 60 in under 3 seconds, and the other is about say 300hp manual with low gear ratios and low levels of grip that are approachable on the roads. Which is more fun?

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by troyguitar

They've been too fast for a long time. At least up here in NY state there are cops everywhere and their sole purpose in life is to hand out speeding tickets to fund NYC. Forget about the $300k price of the car, you'd have to spend 7+ figures annually on a legal team to even keep your license to drive a McLaren here... What's the point?

My 86 is significantly more fun to drive on public roads than my Z06 ever was.

NY state is the worst! I was looking at my speedometer more than the road when I drive there! Driving in NY state is a hazard because you can't look at the road. It's as backwards as it gets over there. Once I left, I was so happy I can actually use the gas pedal without PTSD.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by dhuang

I pulled up next to a '91 NA Miata in my 4C the other day and we get chatting at the light...

"What year is it?"
"1991"

"My roommate has a NA too and it's a blast. Does it have the 1.6?"
"Yep!"

"I love those cars because you can explore the limits all the time."
"Yeah and nobody hates you for it unlike that thing."

He's right

Disclaimer:
I consider the 4C to be a baby McLaren 570S but nowhere near the sophistication of a 720S.
My Roommate owns a '97 NA 1.8 and had a '93 NA 1.6 before.

The hate part is actually very sad. You can add fuel to that fire by being a minority and driving a fancy car. Off topic but it is sad.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

It really depends what your definition of fun on the street is.

If you just want 2-3 seconds of insane acceleration (or don't mind destroying speed limits), you will absolutely have fun with 500+ hp. I've got a friend with a stage 2 RS3 (high 10's at the drag strip) that he loves driving on the street. But he street races and is mostly a straight line guy and obviously doesn't mind the risk.

I've got another friend with a 500+ hp E46 M3 track car. He could drive it on the street (it's a pretty mild build other than the supercharger), but doesn't really enjoy it out there. There's nowhere to really open it up without significant risk and he's a track guy at heart anyway.

I've been lucky enough to track and street-drive both their cars, and for me, I tend to agree with my second friend. For street driving (e.g., daily commuting and even canyon runs), I have more fun with a slow-car fast approach. I want to be able to redline a few gears whenever I want without risking losing my license. On the track, more power is always better but even a Miata or FR-S is still a good time (and way less consumables).

Thanks

This is among the most useful comments I've read on here. I guess I can see why some people would actually really get their money's worth out of a 500+ car on public roads. Not that I would get into this stuff myself. I'd rather keep streets safe for others as well as myself. Public roads are for everyone.

I guess it's a lifestyle. Just as much as the vast majority of people would rather have comfort over handling or g-force cornering.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by TommyW

I went from a 911 Turbo to a Miata to an FRS.
The 911 was only good on the street once in a great while and too heavy to be a good track car. The 86 is by far my favorite overall.

I don't know which model year was your 911 Turbo but cars have gotten ridiculously fast recently. It's not just horsepower fast, it's everything fast. Fast launch, fast shifts fast response, fast steering.

The latest 992 911 Carrera S hits 0-60 in 2.9 seconds! and this is more or less a baseline 911 !

We're in an era of "blink and you'll miss it" type of fun cars with the speed limits imposed

You can make an argument that they should update the speedlimits but then again the speeds are more set by average driving skill rather than the car's speed capabilities. Modern cars are outstripping humans!

The Matrix is coming

[serialk11r]

I'm a "there is such a thing as too much power" person, but I think a McLaren 720S would be pretty fun. It looks very exotic, and you have the pleasure of knowing it's superbly engineered from the aero to the active suspension to the 8500rpm engine and "precog" gearbox. The interior also has that wild race car feel. It's a great toy for people with too much money.

Driving in SF or NYC it wouldn't be able to stretch its legs, but driving something like that would have to feel special even when you're stuck in traffic.

If I had 9 figures net worth I would get one because why not, along with a 992 GT3, NSX, and a bunch of other collector cars. Keep them in Newport Beach or something so I don't look too conspicuous and take them out once in a while.

For a hardcore-daily though I'd want something I can wring out a bit more without getting killed or arrested. Pedal to the metal with moderate acceleration and loud noises is fun, so low torque, very high rev limit, short 1st and 2nd gear. 15k would go very far for upgrading an econobox motor to a 9000+rpm wannabe-motorcycle.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by reni

I remember a long time ago on another car forum, there was a guy upgraded from a miata to an Exige. He had done autox and track days before, but readily admitted that the lotus far exceeded his abilities.

I think that in order to enjoy any car, you need both the skill to push it to the limits, and a road or track where you can do so.

Perhaps some people can enjoy driving super/hyper cars at legal speeds, but it's not my cup of tea.

i dont know. i mean, cars are fun at their limits and the miata is very cool because you can get to the limit pretty easily. sometimes though, cars are fun not at their limits. having had 4 miatas and currently own a brz, fiat 124 and an elise, ive got some real experience in these type of cars. the elise is just faster and it has more grip. it also has you working much harder to get it and is more informative along the way. its much of the same formula just all more sensational.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by fatoni

having had 4 miatas and currently own a brz, fiat 124 and an elise, ive got some real experience in these type of cars. the elise is just faster and it has more grip. it also has you working much harder to get it and is more informative along the way.

You got a 124? How are you liking the turbo?

I think response and sensation is the key. Any cheap slow car can reach its limits quickly but it doesn't make it fun. If you can feel it happening and control it, it's fun. Though I wasn't a huge fan of my FR-S, I liked how it was very easy to drift at an autox and controlling the tail in tight turns was very easy and intuitive.

That's why I think the 720S is probably a pretty fun car. It's got good steering, good suspension, and the "precog" is supposed to make the gear shifts even faster than your usual double clutch paddle system.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

Thanks

This is among the most useful comments I've read on here. I guess I can see why some people would actually really get their money's worth out of a 500+ car on public roads. Not that I would get into this stuff myself. I'd rather keep streets safe for others as well as myself. Public roads are for everyone.

I guess it's a lifestyle. Just as much as the vast majority of people would rather have comfort over handling or g-force cornering.

Yeah I feel the same way about street racing. Even the unlikely possibility that some random driver gets hurt by me or the other guy means it's not worth the risk.

It's the same reason I find canyon roads partly frustrating. All it takes is a random jogger or bicyclist out enjoying a break-of-dawn workout.

In some ways, track driving has ruined street driving for me. That feeling of pushing a car to 9 or 10/10ths for an extended period of time just can't be replicated safely on the street.

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yeah I feel the same way about street racing. Even the unlikely possibility that some random driver gets hurt by me or the other guy means it's not worth the risk.

It's the same reason I find canyon roads partly frustrating. All it takes is a random jogger or bicyclist out enjoying a break-of-dawn workout.

In some ways, track driving has ruined street driving for me. That feeling of pushing a car to 9 or 10/10ths for an extended period of time just can't be replicated safely on the street.

Track and auto-x have had the opposite effect on me. Knowing that there's no way to approach limits experienced during those events on the street for very long even disregarding the safety, liability and legality issues, I'm more likely now to cruise along at a comfortable pace. It maintains peace and harmony throughout the land, especially the passenger seat sometimes occupied by my easily white-knuckled wife.

Of course "comfortable" means I'm at the head of the line when possible, the safest place to be on public roads. Sometimes that means legging it for a few seconds to overtake others but tactical planning makes it easy even in my wife's Camry hybrid.

Plus I'm one of those cyclists out for a sunrise spin you mentioned on narrow two-lane mountain roads and traffic on a good day is a concern, especially pickups with extended mirrors that are everywhere around here.

Anyway, as much as I like oggling others exotics in the wild and have owned a few P-cars, I've probably had the most sustained fun in small, light, low powered cars with MR2 Spyder and FR-S at the top of that short list.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Track and auto-x have had the opposite effect on me. Knowing that there's no way to approach limits experienced during those events on the street for very long even disregarding the safety, liability and legality issues, I'm more likely now to cruise along at a comfortable pace. It maintains peace and harmony throughout the land, especially the passenger seat sometimes occupied by my easily white-knuckled wife.

Of course "comfortable" means I'm at the head of the line when possible, the safest place to be on public roads. Sometimes that means legging it for a few seconds to overtake others but tactical planning makes it easy even in my wife's Camry hybrid.

Plus I'm one of those cyclists out for a sunrise spin you mentioned on narrow two-lane mountain roads and traffic on a good day is a concern, especially pickups with extended mirrors that are everywhere around here.

Anyway, as much as I like oggling others exotics in the wild and have owned a few P-cars, I've probably had the most sustained fun in small, light, low powered cars with MR2 Spyder and FR-S at the top of that short list.

Yeah same here, that's what I meant when I said the track ruined street driving for me. It's hard to get excited about "pushing" a car on the street when you get used to really pushing a car to its limit on the track. I imagine it's horrible for professional race car drivers. Anything less than full-blast 10/10ths wheel-to-wheel must be such a bore.

This is actually making me want to pick up a convertible for street driving. Something like a NA/NB Miata to cruise the canyons and just enjoy the views without hitting breakneck speeds.

[EAGLE5]

Track driving made street driving more fun. I now know the limits of the car, and I can go fast while staying within them.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

What happens when there's nothing to write about?

One calls in the grammar police!!!!


(Yeah, I'm bored but you asked. (I think you asked.))

[why?]

I've driven enough powerful expensive cars to know I want a car that can handle more than a car that has lots of unusable power.

I've been way too fast on public highways. Has zero effect on me. Status symbols don't matter to me at all. I'm not a track guy.

Let people enjoy what they want to. Some people like more power and status and that stuff. As long as they are happy good for them.