CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[Malt]

Originally Posted by 1Cor10:23

Actually, was referring to caster haha. Should've been more clear.

Yeah, my caster is maxed out on the plates. I'm VERY tempted to buy the whiteline anti-dive kit to get more caster but I've read about people having issues running to much caster. The whiteline kit only gives 0.5 degrees more so not sure if I'm willing to install it until I actually need another alignment. We'll see

[ZionsWrath]

What tire stock suspension?

-1.3 front, ~ -1 rear.

0.05 toe out front, 0.04 toe in rear

Thinking ad08r but not 100% decided.

[meeks]

Sorry, I am a suspension noob here. I just installed eibach prokits. For camber correction, I installed whiteline camber bolts on the top hole upfront. Now that being said, I read by searching that I would want to compensate the rear camber by adding at least -2 (or more) upfront which the whiteline camber bolt cannot give. Should I purchase the bottom bolt and if so, what is the part number for that so I can order it.

May you suggest an ideal alignment setting for what I've got given that I'm not planning to get rear camber lca...just toe arms to correct the toe down the road for the rear.

Quick notes:

Car is 100% daily driven but would want a "competitive" set-up on the very rare track day. (Budget constraints)
On a budget, camber plates/rear lca not really ideal for my budget at the moment.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by meeks

Car is 100% daily driven but would want a "competitive" set-up on the very rare track day.

you falsely assume that an extra degree of camber is turn your car from "uncompetitive" to "competitive"


if you daily drive your car 100% then there is no need, at all, to worry about the small stuff like this.


if you ever make it to the track, then just drive the car. If you're good it will show, camber or not.

[gramicci101]

That doesn't give him an idea of what to tell the alignment guy.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by meeks

Sorry, I am a suspension noob here. I just installed eibach prokits. For camber correction, I installed whiteline camber bolts on the top hole upfront. Now that being said, I read by searching that I would want to compensate the rear camber by adding at least -2 (or more) upfront which the whiteline camber bolt cannot give. Should I purchase the bottom bolt and if so, what is the part number for that so I can order it.

May you suggest an ideal alignment setting for what I've got given that I'm not planning to get rear camber lca...just toe arms to correct the toe down the road for the rear.

Quick notes:

Car is 100% daily driven but would want a "competitive" set-up on the very rare track day. (Budget constraints)
On a budget, camber plates/rear lca not really ideal for my budget at the moment.

Let's try something more constructive and useful... lol

With camber specs on this car your generally want the fronts to have a tad more negative camber than the rear. Since you've already lowered the car you probably have something close to -2 in the rear and maybe -1.8 out front with your camber bolts. So you'd either want to add a bit more camber out front or reduce the amount that's in the rear, or both. Something like -2.5f -2.0r or -2.0f -1.6r, with the latter being less aggressive.

The low buck option without going camber plates and/or control arms for the adjustment are:

1. Another set of camber bolts on the lower holes for more negative front camber. For a total of 2 sets of camber bolts on the front struts. (what I did)

2. Slot one of the mounting holes on the strut to get more camber adjustment.

3. Camber bolts for the inner LCA mounting bolt to reduce negative camber in the rears. H&R makes some that works quite well, but has only +- .4 degree of adjustment. (I have them on my car currently)

You can do either combination of 1+3 or 2+3 to get the desired camber specs. I might be changing up my set up real soon so I might have some of these camber bolts for sale if you are interested you can PM me.

[meeks]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Let's try something more constructive and useful... lol

With camber specs on this car your generally want the fronts to have a tad more negative camber than the rear. Since you've already lowered the car you probably have something close to -2 in the rear and maybe -1.8 out front with your camber bolts. So you'd either want to add a bit more camber out front or reduce the amount that's in the rear, or both. Something like -2.5f -2.0r or -2.0f -1.6r, with the latter being less aggressive.

The low buck option without going camber plates and/or control arms for the adjustment are:

1. Another set of camber bolts on the lower holes for more negative front camber. For a total of 2 sets of camber bolts on the front struts. (what I did)

2. Slot one of the mounting holes on the strut to get more camber adjustment.

3. Camber bolts for the inner LCA mounting bolt to reduce negative camber in the rears. H&R makes some that works quite well, but has only +- .4 degree of adjustment. (I have them on my car currently)

You can do either combination of 1+3 or 2+3 to get the desired camber specs. I might be changing up my set up real soon so I might have some of these camber bolts for sale if you are interested you can PM me.

Thank you for the tips, im going to do 1 + 3. Do you know if the bottom bolt is a different part number than the top bolt? When i installed mine, the bottom hole looked smaller than the top one.

I greatly appreciate the feedback! People like you makes this forum better

Originally Posted by 7thgear

you falsely assume that an extra degree of camber is turn your car from "uncompetitive" to "competitive"


if you daily drive your car 100% then there is no need, at all, to worry about the small stuff like this.


if you ever make it to the track, then just drive the car. If you're good it will show, camber or not.

Happy Canada day, fellow Canadian. Im not sure if youre trying to be a smart ass, eh?

Worrying about small stuff? Haha i think youre downplaying alignment settings. I dont have to go to the track to not worry about that. This guy wants me to plow while i daily drive the car. Havent gotten my alignment done yet, and i can feel the under steer already going on and off highway ramps on legal road limits. I was simply asking for tips and maybe someone can chime in and provide a "competetive" spec. But thanks for being helpful, EH!

[jvincent]

Originally Posted by meeks

Thank you for the tips, im going to do 1 + 3. Do you know if the bottom bolt is a different part number than the top bolt? When i installed mine, the bottom hole looked smaller than the top one.

Are you asking about the OEM bolts?

The OEM struts have a 14mm bottom hole and 16 mm top hole. Putting an OEM 14mm crash bolt in the top hole will get you to about -1.5* camber.

If you add a camber bolt designed to go into the lower hole (SPC, etc) it will need to be smaller than 14mm.

There was some discussion that using both a smaller bolt in the lower hole and the crash bolt in the top hole might compromise the strength, but I am not the expert on that.

If you are looking to get more camber I would look at slotting the top strut hole myself.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by meeks

Worrying about small stuff? Haha i think youre downplaying alignment settings. I dont have to go to the track to not worry about that. This guy wants me to plow while i daily drive the car. Havent gotten my alignment done yet, and i can feel the under steer already going on and off highway ramps on legal road limits. I was simply asking for tips and maybe someone can chime in and provide a "competetive" spec. But thanks for being helpful, EH!

here is my competitive spec
Strano FSB,
Toyo R1Rs
Front camber -1.3


everything else stock/oem




when's the last time you were at a track?

[meeks]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

when's the last time you were at a track?

What significance does that boast? Eh? Esl much? Did i not state that i am a noob and that i was asking for tips as a noob. Im speaking english, right?

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by meeks

What significance does that boast? Eh? Esl much? Did i not state that i am a noob and that i was asking for tips as a noob. Im speaking english, right?

Yes, you are speaking English, but it's somewhat poor and muddled.


The significance is that it's kind of important for you to actually go to the track, somewhat regularly, to make it worthwhile setting your car for the track.


Your understeering could be a result of multiple reasons. Front camber setting being only one, but really driver input is usually the biggest contributor, not to mention that most cars are designed to understeer.


You think you asked for help, but really you've asked for everyone to just confirm your hunches so you can justify spending more money on your car making it "competitive" without even planning to attend any competition.




But I suppose your whole line of reasoning is perfectly in line with your avatar.

[meeks]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

Yes, you are speaking English, but it's somewhat poor and muddled.


The significance is that it's kind of important for you to actually go to the track, somewhat regularly, to make it worthwhile setting your car for the track.


Your understeering could be a result of multiple reasons. Front camber setting being only one, but really driver input is usually the biggest contributor, not to mention that most cars are designed to understeer.


You think you asked for help, but really you've asked for everyone to just confirm your hunches so you can justify spending more money on your car making it "competitive" without even planning to attend any competition.




But I suppose your whole line of reasoning is perfectly in line with your avatar.

Ahh finally a great response and a little pathetic jab in the end lol. Ok bro, calm down you dont have to submit a term paper about it hahaha. It was a simple "hey, any recommended alignment settings, heres what i have and maybe pitch if its ok for an occasional track day". You didnt have to be salty about it.







Anyway, back to topic!

Originally Posted by jvincent

Are you asking about the OEM bolts?

The OEM struts have a 14mm bottom hole and 16 mm top hole. Putting an OEM 14mm crash bolt in the top hole will get you to about -1.5* camber.

If you add a camber bolt designed to go into the lower hole (SPC, etc) it will need to be smaller than 14mm.

There was some discussion that using both a smaller bolt in the lower hole and the crash bolt in the top hole might compromise the strength, but I am not the expert on that.

If you are looking to get more camber I would look at slotting the top strut hole myself.

I have the whiteline camber bolts upfront...but for the top hole. Was thinking of getting that bolt for the bottom but i dont know what the part number for it is or if there is even such a thing an adjustable bottom bolt (hence why i posted and asked coz im a noob for this platform)

Thanks for the input! Greatly appreciate it!

[NissanGuy]

You say adjusting the camber plates positively (apologies for goofy wording) will provide a more advantageous SAI.

Is SAI the same as caster with McPherson strut?

What are we calling 'better' SAI and why?

Also is it better to have a high or low roll center? I presume one way increases body roll and the other decreases...

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by NissanGuy

Is SAI the same as caster with McPherson strut?

SAI is SAI (steering axis inclination), it is the angle between the true vertical and the pivot points of the wheel assembly looking from the front in 2D, be it wishbones or macstrut






Caster is Caster


it is the angle relative to vertical of the same assembly looking from the side

Originally Posted by NissanGuy

What are we calling 'better' SAI and why?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUcZ63unEyU"]Steering Axis Inclination - Explained - YouTube[/ame]

Originally Posted by NissanGuy

Also is it better to have a high or low roll center? I presume one way increases body roll and the other decreases...

it is important to have a balanced relationship between the roll center AND center of gravity


so you want a low center of gravity and the roll center a bit below it, this is what leans the car left when you turn right,


you could build a car that does the opposite, but that would be weird


you could also build a car that does not roll, but that creates more problems than it solves.