10-04-2012, 06:54 PM | #29 |
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The K series is a beast though. You can make serious NA power with that engine. It's the best 4 cylinder engine around for modding. 300+whp NA is amazing. I don't see any FA20 pulling that off very easily. A few simple mods can net 250whp and that is fantastic power.
I almost bought a civic SI before putting money down on a BRZ. 8th gen sedans are pretty sweet cars. 9th gen is just meh. I just wish the FA had the potential that the K series has in stock form. RWD is a better platform to start with. But I wouldn't rule out the SI based on that alone. They can perform very well at the track in stock form, but with a little mods it will really come alive. Making power is cheap in the SI vs the FRS, just because mods create such large gains on the K. I'm just being a devil's advocate here. I love the BRZ. But the SI shouldn't be shunned so quickly. They are both great cars. |
10-05-2012, 05:03 AM | #30 | |
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Last edited by 2013GTRNate; 10-05-2012 at 05:21 AM. |
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10-05-2012, 08:05 AM | #31 |
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Had a 8th gen civic (08) Si coupe, i wouldn't say the civic is bad at all, very decent daily driver with lots more usable room than the BRZ. However, first time taking my stock BRZ to the track i realized it has a lot more potential and a ton more fun than the Si (even with coils, sticky tires, and decent amount of camber) even though i was about 10km/h slower down the straightaway compare to the si which had a tune and exhaust, etc. The Si can carry decent speed if you set it up correct, but you will never have that balance like a frs/brz has. This car really is unique at this sticker price...
IMO, if you are comparing its driving characteristics (ie. feedback, overall balance, fun factor), i would say the Si is no match. If you are comparing hp to hp, track time, etc, then they MAY be similar. It really comes down to what you are looking for. If you really like driving or this is not your DD or you are willing to give up interior and truck space, then i believe the choice is very clear.
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10-05-2012, 08:30 AM | #32 |
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10-08-2012, 08:27 PM | #33 |
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Sorry I don't think you can be a serious auto enthusiast if you blow off a car simply because it's FWD. BRZ lost in a comparo with the Renault Megane Trophy, a FWD car. Plenty of FWD are very rewarding to drive.
I have an 06 Civic Si--granted it's modded a bit, but stock for stock, the K20 engine is a much more entertaining powerplant than the BRZ/FR-S. The problem with the FR-S engine isn't that it doesn't have enough power--it's just not a very fun engine to wring out. There's a deadzone of torque in the mid-range that makes revving a chore. Steering is a toss up in the 8thgen Si to the FR-S. Both are EPS, both aren't as communicative as I'd want. Chassis rigidity the FR-S is superior to the Si. That said, there's simply no replacing the feeling of RWD in corners. My Si has been tweaked to be more oversteer-prone (more negative camber up front, stiffer rear rebound damping), and it's neutral in the corners, with even a bit of lift-off oversteer if you try. But the FR-S feels like a proper sports car, and you can feel the rear traction breaking, even if it's not dorifuto-tail sliding. 9G feels a lot worse than the 8G. Numb and slower steering, more mushy in suspension feel. Engine isn't as fun to rev. Between the 9G and FR-S, FR-S is better in almost every way. |
10-09-2012, 08:48 AM | #34 |
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10-23-2012, 05:04 PM | #35 | |
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2013 Civic Si and regular Civics should have Direct Injection (Earth Dreams engines) , or at least by the 2014 year. |
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10-23-2012, 05:49 PM | #36 |
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Oh, well it must've been a 2012 then. He didn't specify year, he just said he bought it brand new.
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10-23-2012, 07:28 PM | #37 |
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10-24-2012, 09:43 AM | #38 |
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Absolutely no information has been revealed about any future Civic Si using an Earth Dreams engine. Anything at this point is just hearsay so even bringing it up is completely pointless.
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11-13-2012, 01:39 AM | #39 |
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Yes the frs/brz handle great, but what about the motor? Everyone says, it's not meant for straight line blah blah blah, but really, is this a valid excuse? I just don't see it. If this car made an NA 240hp....holy....
I just can't get past it. Look at Honda's F20B from the Accord SiR from the 90s (yes now more than 15 years old, before direct injection and fancy electronics). F20B Torque: 145 lb/ft @ 5500 rpm Horsepower: 197 hp @ 7000 rpm D4-S Torque: 151 lb/ft at 6,600 rpm Horsepower: 200 hp at 7,000 rpm Now that's only comparing 2.0L Honda motors. If you get into the 2.2L, then the D4-S just gets destroyed. Hell, the B18C5 matches the D4-S well too, but I left it out of comparison because ITRs are fairly limited. |
11-13-2012, 08:35 AM | #40 | ||
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The B18C5 can't get up a hill on its own. Plus it needs a secondary cam profile to make it's rated HP. I had a Civic Si with a K20 and waiting for VTEC was worse than turbo lag LOL. Show me any other NA 2 liter that can make 140ft lbs to the wheels at 2500 RPM and 6500 RPM without a secondary cam profile. Quote:
The power dip is there, yes, but I find it leaves as fast as it comes (even without my tune). I wouldn't go back to the Civic at all. It was just way overhyped for what it was. The same can be said about the 86 right now with all the mags slobbering all over it. But in my comparison and experience, the 86 actually backs up most of its claims. |
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11-13-2012, 10:12 AM | #41 | |
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11-13-2012, 11:00 AM | #42 | |
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