Buying an 86 for track use

[MarkR171]

I wanted to hear people's thoughts about pros/cons of the early 86s (13-16) and the 17+ for track use - mainly in terms of reliability. The tl;dr of the below is: Chassis/Performance/Gearing/etc. differences aside, from a pure reliability standpoint, is the 2017+ car worth the money over a 2015ish car? After having recurring issues with my 2015, engine reliability is the main concern I have with buying one for track use.

I previously owned a 2015 FRS for about 18 months, and it was in and out of the dealership for cam gear / OCV issues. Eventually, I got a new short block under warranty and Toyota offered to buy it back. The thread is here:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100862

I would consider myself a somewhat serious autocrosser (17.5 hour single day drive in an ND Miata to and from Nationals last year lol) and am considering venturing into time trialing. I've done many DEs, but never did a competitive track event (other than casual circuit-cross events at Summit Point.) After thinking about cars I'd like to drive on track, the 86 platform keeps coming back despite my bad experience with one. I initially considered the NB Miata because they're cheap and proven, but I don't feel like buying a tow vehicle/trailer and a track-used NB is probably not a good car to take 4-6 hours to various tracks, especially towing a tire/tool trailer. NC Miata is another option. Newer, easier to find in good shape, more power and weight to tow the trailer (I tow a Leroy Engineering Grid trailer behind my ND autocross car)


The 86 could do long drives and has the space to not need the trailer for day trips to Summit Point, but can tow the trailer for longer trips to VIR/PittRace/etc.

Now my question is: did I just have bad luck with my 2015? Or do a lot of the 14-16 FRS/BRZs have cam/ocv issues? My specific issue was apparently excess engine sealant breaking off and causing oil blockages and jamming the OCV. I've also heard of various other issues with the early cars (injectors, seals, cam gears, etc.)

I have also read issues with the 2017+ cars, specifically low-mile brand new cars needing valve adjustments.

Chassis/Performance/Gearing/etc. differences aside, from a pure reliability standpoint, is the 2017+ car worth the money over a 2015ish car?

[jvincent]

IMHO, you just had bad luck with your first car.

I've been tracking a late build 2013 since I first got it without issues.

[Shneegle]

I've got an early 2013 FRS. Been full into autox the past 4 years and doing more and more tracking. I have not had any major issues with it so far. Condensation in the taillights was a early thing I had. 2 years ago I replaced the valve cover gaskets as they were leaking. Just last week I had my first ignition coil go out and it was about a 10 min fix. I usually tow a tire trailer to all the events and DD mine.

I think your first twin was just bad luck.

[Takumi788]

I purchased mine in March 2013 and had it on track before it was a month old. I have been beating the piss out of it with close to zero issues.

[Takumi788]

If you are going to tow with it check out the twin hitch from Slambert. It is awesome to be able to tow a tire trailer to the track and not have any added weight of a hitch.

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by Takumi788

If you are going to tow with it check out the twin hitch from Slambert. It is awesome to be able to tow a tire trailer to the track and not have any added weight of a hitch.

I had seen that before when I had my 2015. Is it really strong enough to pull ~500lbs worth of trailer, tires, and tools?

I am leaning towards a 2017 anyway for the updates. Seems to be some decent deals going around for the leftover 2017s.


edit: The hitch is built to SAE J684 standards, and is rated it at 1000lb max trailer weight, 100lb max tongue weight. It is designed to use a standard 1-1/4in receiver. The hitch has been powder coated for durability and all fasteners/mounting bolts have been plated for corrosion resistance.

Interesting...

[ZDan]

I was looking at a '16 lemon law buy-back car last year and it had been in/out for cam drive issues. I passed... So anyway it looks like that is a semi-common issue at least up to '16.

Ultimately I got a new '17 with performance package. I don't know if the cam issues have been addressed, but in any case I went with '17 model to get the brembo brakes for easier street/track pad swaps.

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I was looking at a '16 lemon law buy-back car last year and it had been in/out for cam drive issues. I passed... So anyway it looks like that is a semi-common issue at least up to '16.

Ultimately I got a new '17 with performance package. I don't know if the cam issues have been addressed, but in any case I went with '17 model to get the brembo brakes for easier street/track pad swaps.

Essentially my thinking. I know of several who had issues, another friend of mine also had a replaced short block in his '13 BRZ. The cam parts are all different in the 2017 so hopefully no more issues.

[HKz]

never understood the point of creating threads asking about reliability from other posters...don't think that's how statistics work..there's not enough data out there to truly compare 17+ reliability to 13-16 so if you're really looking for replies you're probably going to get the influx of posters who have had mysterious CELs pop up with their 17+.

The way I look at it, out of all the choices one has with cheap sports currently in production, there probably isn't a more reliable powerplant out there. Since it is just a track toy why not just get a really cheap used 86? The engine changes aren't big enough to warrant the extra money unless you got $$ to burn..

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by HKz

never understood the point of creating threads asking about reliability from other posters...don't think that's how statistics work..there's not enough data out there to truly compare 17+ reliability to 13-16 so if you're really looking for replies you're probably going to get the influx of posters who have had mysterious CELs pop up with their 17+.

The way I look at it, out of all the choices one has with cheap sports currently in production, there probably isn't a more reliable powerplant out there. Since it is just a track toy why not just get a really cheap used 86? The engine changes aren't big enough to warrant the extra money unless you got $$ to burn..

No, there's not a lot of data, but there is this one Mike guy who's already at the 35k mark on his 17 BRZ, and it's a dedicated weekend warrior track car!

OP: your 15+ issues are all possible known issues on 13-16 cars. 17+ seems to have ironed most of them out.

I've logged close to 70 events in my car, with non of the known 13-16 issues. Heck, I haven't even had a single warrantyable issue yet that wasn't caused by me!

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by HKz

never understood the point of creating threads asking about reliability from other posters...don't think that's how statistics work..there's not enough data out there to truly compare 17+ reliability to 13-16 so if you're really looking for replies you're probably going to get the influx of posters who have had mysterious CELs pop up with their 17+.

My question was mainly whether or not certain common issues were addressed with the updates. I'd pay a premium to deal with less issues. I've been around so many FRS/BRZs and see CELs for random crap popping up all the time for known recurring issues. If the 2017 solves most of these, it's worth the money to me (in addition to the other updates and the fact that it's a fresher/newer car.)

I get that forums will make it seem like there are problems with every car, I guess I'm just trying to rationalize buying a 2nd 86 after the first one was a lemon, haha

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

No, there's not a lot of data, but there is this one Mike guy who's already at the 35k mark on his 17 BRZ, and it's a dedicated weekend warrior track car!

OP: your 15+ issues are all possible known issues on 13-16 cars. 17+ seems to have ironed most of them out.

I've logged close to 70 events in my car, with non of the known 13-16 issues. Heck, I haven't even had a single warrantyable issue yet that wasn't caused by me!

Thanks Mike! 35k miles of track use on that thing? You're an animal

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

Thanks Mike! 35k miles of track use on that thing? You're an animal

Not ALL track use, as it also includes drives to/from the track and to/from the shop.

I have less than 2000 miles of total street driving with the car outside of the above, including the initial break-in.

The miles do include a cross-country drive from CA to Road Atlanta, and back (with a few stops at the Tail of the Dragon, Pikes Peak, and others).

[MarkR171]

Still, that's a solid amount. Just saw your thread comparing the 13-16 and 17 as well. Probably will end up with a '17 or an '18 if the pricing makes sense. I intend to occasionally street drive it as well, but will probably aim for TT5 in 2019.