Supra...killing the 86/BRZ?

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by arkanist

https://jalopnik.com/the-lowest-four...-hp-1831734785



https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sho...der-us-market/



They have a 194hp 4cyl (outside the states). The 86 is quicker than a Supra.

We can finally brag

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Grady

Maybe yours!



Some people will love it, some people will hate it! It will create buzz and sell other Toyotas just as they planed.



Looks ok, could have been done better for my taste. I like the simple lines of the BRZ.

Totally agree.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jrb363

Ha! I wish.

It's just a concern of mine. I know the cars don't directly compete, but since Ford/GM are killing sedans, BMW/Audi/Benz/etc have all killed the manual in the last few years to say I'm on edge is an understatement.

Sales have dropped like a stone and there have been zero official announcements of anything regarding the platform.

I honestly think, best case scenario here, is we get a 2nd generation with a 2.4 Turbo by 2021 and that's it... until govt regulations strangle and ultimately kill ICE engine development by early 2030's.

Worst case is they kill it by 2020.

In-between I think is the most financially logical l option...to pull a Nissan and move 8-10k units every year as a niche product since development costs have been recouped by now, leaving it on the vine for the next 5-6 years until it's so outdated the government won't let them sell it.

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It is not a highly marketed car. Never has been.
We didn't hear a peep on the 17 upgrades until they happened so don't panic now.
There will never be a 2.4 turbo. They have made that very clear many times so any rumours are just speculation and wishful thinking.
It will stop some day but they have already planned that so the Supra will have no impact.
The sales are still pretty good for the segment. Yes they have dropped since introduction but as far as we know they are still selling what they built and that means they are meeting their goals. They are not now nor never were looking for high sales numbers for these cars. Profitability is not their purpose in the overall scheme of things. Sports cars as a whole have dropped so it isn't just these.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DandoX

Try not to fret, like I said if Toyota killed it off then that doesn't mean Subaru will. Also if the 86/BRZ is killed off it will just leave a vacuum in the market for something else to appeal to us. Not everyone in this segment is willing to buy MX-5s. Although its not a terrible choice, just not as cool as a 86/BRZ.


+ IF they do kill the platform off all together then that means it wont be long until resale price will rise.

It is a joint venture. Subaru would not carry on without Toyota. Makes no business sense at all. No doubt they would love that production capacity for the bigger margin appliance cars.

[Mr.ac]

What are you guys smoking it's just a new BRZ with an engine swap and a body kit.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Mr.ac

What are you guys smoking it's just a new BRZ with an engine swap and a body kit.

If only. It is a BMW with a Toyota badge. I know that people say the 86 is just a Subaru but at least there are some Toyota aspects to it. The Supra looks like Toyota drew a picture on a napkin handed it to BMW and then just wandered away for a nap.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jrb363

With the announcement of a 'low powered' Supra is there a chance it could kill our beloved 86?

The 86/BRZ are quickly closing in on $30k base, at least in my area, and if they can release a $35k Supra that has higher tier/price options and trims and more well known/respected name...well, what's their reason to keep the aging 86 platform alive?

Toyota/Subaru all but ignore it as it is...is this the death sign or will the 86 live to see a second generation?

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There will not be any "low powered" Supra in the US.


https://www.supramkv.com/threads/toy...-the-u-s.1538/

And where the heck do you live where the base price is $30K?

[Summerwolf]

The ones saying the 86 is faster than a supra..... we dont know that yet. That hp figure could very well be wheel hp and I can almost guarantee you the torque will be higher with no dip.

Wait until the damn thing is released.

[jrb363]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There will not be any "low powered" Supra in the US.


https://www.supramkv.com/threads/toy...-the-u-s.1538/

And where the heck do you live where the base price is $30K?

My area basically only carries the higher level trims in a manual. I have seen exactly ONE 86 Manual priced at $29.5k since 2016. Dealers here don't give a shit. They always have it at MSRP + package + $600-800 in local add-on crap nobody wants...but they refuse to remove it nor take it off the price. Believe me, I've tried. It's why I finally gave up and bought mine used.

2015, bone stock, dark grey, manual and paid less than half what the stealerships want new.

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[DandoX]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It is a joint venture. Subaru would not carry on without Toyota. Makes no business sense at all. No doubt they would love that production capacity for the bigger margin appliance cars.

Is there a reason why Subaru wouldn't continue to sell BRZ if Toyota discontinued the 86? Seems like Subaru can just gobble all future twin platform sales if Toyota backs out.

[jrb363]

Originally Posted by DandoX

Is there a reason why Subaru wouldn't continue to sell BRZ if Toyota discontinued the 86? Seems like Subaru can just gobble all future twin platform sales if Toyota backs out.

I wonder this as well. It's effectively a Subaru platform throughout anyway, right? If they have the lines set up and can double their current/future sales with no effort beyond increasing available scale and their R&D costs have been covered...it's basically all profit out the door I would imagine.

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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DandoX

Is there a reason why Subaru wouldn't continue to sell BRZ if Toyota discontinued the 86? Seems like Subaru can just gobble all future twin platform sales if Toyota backs out.

Don't believe there would be enough volume to warrant it. Even with the 86 in the mix both versions are sort of a "loss leader" type vehicle that was more a dream of Toyota execs than anything. The history shows that Subaru was pretty much forced into it in the first place so the odds of the carrying on by themselves are very very low. Add the fact that by 2022 Subaru will be building all their other models on the same global platform and it makes very little business sense to run one plant to build one model on a dedicated platform. I would be totally shocked if they carried on with it by themselves.
In fact now that I think this through I am going to speculate that come 2022 we may see the demise of the platform simply because Subaru is changing to the single one. We will come back in three years and see how good my crystal ball reading was. I could be way off base because as I have said before much of what the auto industry does makes no apparent sense since we are not privy to the long term goals and plans.

[Th3rdSun]

Originally Posted by jrb363

I wonder this as well. It's effectively a Subaru platform throughout anyway, right? If they have the lines set up and can double their current/future sales with no effort beyond increasing available scale and their R&D costs have been covered...it's basically all profit out the door I would imagine.

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And considering that it's made in Subaru's factories and almost every single part of the car has a "Subaru" stamp on it,it has always been more of a Subaru than a Toyota/Scion. If the partnership spit and there's nothing in the legal documents stating that either company couldn't continue production after they call it quits,I don't see what would stop them from continuing other than they don't want to.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jrb363

I wonder this as well. It's effectively a Subaru platform throughout anyway, right? If they have the lines set up and can double their current/future sales with no effort beyond increasing available scale and their R&D costs have been covered...it's basically all profit out the door I would imagine.

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Subaru platform with Toyota cash backing it up. After the recall Subaru is going to be a bit strapped for cash as their 2019 forecast shows. They would have to more than double their sales since the 86 makes up the majority of production.
If they can sell 10,000 BRZs a year for a profit of $2000 each or 10,000 more Imprezas at $5,000 each which are they going to do? They would have to do a retool at some point and that will run a hundred million or so so they would need to sell a shitload of just BRZs to cover those costs alone.