Motor Trend, August issue.

[EyeZer0]

To chime in on the Scion IQ bit, people seem to forget that cars are almost always optioned up from the base level. Take for example a Ford Fiesta. While it may seem you can get one at $14k or 15k, the reality of it is that, besides some very rare cases of finding it, most Fiestas come with: an Automatic transmission, the Ford Bluetooth Sync system and the upgraded stereo. Same thing with the Kia Soul. It's almost impossible to find a base model at around $14k or $15k but there are tons of Plus models with the upgraded stereo at around $18k.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

Fixed it for you.

Um...no. I said COMPACT pick-up. Not Mid-Size. The Taco is about the same size as full size trucks from 10 years ago! I'm talking much smaller. Literally nobody will have a vehicle in that class for sale in the US after this year when the US version of the Ranger is discontinued. There's absolutely a market for it! The Ranger continues to sell (slowly but it's still profitable), even though the last time it received a substantial update was in the 90s. It would sell extremely well if a completely new version with updated interior, styling, engines, etc were offered.

The Nissan Frontier, Toyota Tacoma, Suzuki Equator, Chevrolet Colorado, GMC Canyon, Honda Ridgeline, Dodge Dakota, as well as the non-US market Ranger and the upcoming 2nd Gen Chevrolet Colorado have all grown substantially, offering only slightly less size than full size trucks, at prices that aren't competitive.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

Oh like the hot Selling Baja?

Yeah I don't see some funky looking half truck thing saving Scion. What market are you going to try and sell it too?

Sport? There's the XRunner and even regular Tacomas.

Functional? Regular Tacoma.

Wheeling crowd? ROFL! Not gonna happen unless that thing has a Solid Front Axle.

The Baja was just a Subaru Outback with smaller rear seats and a tiny bed. It was not body-on-frame.

I'm not talking about a funky looking half-truck. Look at the above image of the Scion Pick-up in green. THAT'S what I'm talking about. I had no idea that image or idea even existed but it's exactly what I was getting at. Modern styling that's still obviously a truck, but not built to look like some kind of big-rig like every other truck on the market.

Again with the Tacoma thing....the Tacoma is not a compact pick-up. You're missing the entire point.


And MAN I love that green Scion pick-up illustration! That thing is freaking awesome. Put 17 inch wheels with nice meaty off-road tires and a 3 inch lift on it and it would be absolutely perfect - I'd snap one up in a heartbeat. Gas mileage, good looks, some towing capacity, a decent sized bed, enough traction and ground clearance to handle 95% of all off-road situations, modern goodies inside, easy to park....it would be PERFECT for my lifestyle. I could use it every day, and it would be perfect for hunting, fishing, camping, mountain biking...all the stuff I do! The only modifications to the design that would be needed are front and rear bumpers that are separate from the bodywork and bolted to the frame, for durability and easy replacement, and maybe tubular running boards at the side instead of those plastic side sills, again for durability.

[madfast]

yall crazy...

compact pick up? what does it do that a compact SUV/crossover cant? high school and college kids? they cant afford anything else but a crappy s10.

compact suv's... THAT'S a proven money maker. scion needs one with AWD and all weather capability. and make it small, like what the 1st and 2nd gen RAV4 used to be.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by madfast

yall crazy...

compact pick up? what does it do that a compact SUV/crossover cant? high school and college kids? they cant afford anything else but a crappy s10.

compact suv's... THAT'S a proven money maker. scion needs one with AWD and all weather capability. and make it small, like what the 1st and 2nd gen RAV4 used to be.

There's this thing, called a bed...

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Maxim

There's this thing, called a bed...

and what would the average scion buyer use it for?

pickup trucks are for work. if you have one as a daily driver, you either use it for work or are poor and cant afford anything else. sorry, but that blanket statement is mostly true. for everyday use, a suv/crossover is a million times better....

come to think of it, scion should make a SUV/crossover like the Evoque. stylish 2 door crossover. the old RAV4's had a 3 door model so its nothing new for them. they should go back to what made the RAV4 so awesome to begin with. its small size, with practicality/utility that you can still use...

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Um...no. I said COMPACT pick-up. Not Mid-Size. The Taco is about the same size as full size trucks from 10 years ago! I'm talking much smaller. Literally nobody will have a vehicle in that class for sale in the US after this year when the US version of the Ranger is discontinued. There's absolutely a market for it! The Ranger continues to sell (slowly but it's still profitable), even though the last time it received a substantial update was in the 90s. It would sell extremely well if a completely new version with updated interior, styling, engines, etc were offered.

The Nissan Frontier, Toyota Tacoma, Suzuki Equator, Chevrolet Colorado, GMC Canyon, Honda Ridgeline, Dodge Dakota, as well as the non-US market Ranger and the upcoming 2nd Gen Chevrolet Colorado have all grown substantially, offering only slightly less size than full size trucks, at prices that aren't competitive.

http://www.automotive.com/2011/101/f.../2885/compare/

The Tacoma is a full 1 inch longer than the Ranger.

Also there is no Midsize Truck market. It literally does not exist, of course there's a lot of people that will argue that most "Compacts" have become Midsize, there's nothing out there beyond that. So you can't go around quoting it as fact, when it doesn't exist.

All Cars are bigger now. Compare a 2011 Corolla vs a 1995 or 1985. But they are still considered Compacts.

Also they are still much smaller than Full Size Pickups. Have you ever sat in a Tacoma then a Tundra? or a Ranger then a F150? The Full Sizes are HUGE in comparison.

As for the Scion Truck as people are describing it. The only thing it might compare too would be a modern day El Camino. But smaller, which would pretty much negate any usefulness of having a truck. If you can't fit a Lawnmower in the back who's gonna buy it? There's a fine line between being small and cheap enough to be appealing, and too small. There's a lot of risk in that too. I'm sure they could use some of the Parts off the Tacoma. But the frame would have to be a one off, probably not worth it to Toyota.

Originally Posted by madfast

and what would the average scion buyer use it for?

pickup trucks are for work. if you have one as a daily driver, you either use it for work or are poor and cant afford anything else. sorry, but that blanket statement is mostly true. for everyday use, a suv/crossover is a million times better....

come to think of it, scion should make a SUV/crossover like the Evoque. stylish 2 door crossover. the old RAV4's had a 3 door model so its nothing new for them. they should go back to what made the RAV4 so awesome to begin with. its small size, with practicality/utility that you can still use...

ROFL it's mostly true? It's not even close to true.

My DD is an XRunner. Not because I couldn't afford anything else but because I wanted it. How exactly is an SUV/Crossover a million times better?

They kind of already do. xB and xD. But I don't see them doing anything with AWD or 4WD. I think it would just be too expensive to add.

[82mm 4g63]

The Range Rover Evoque Coupe is badass!

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

The Range Rover Evoque Coupe is badass!

Is that the one Victoria Beckham helped design?

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

Also there is no Midsize Truck market. It literally does not exist.

Basically, yeah. You have Compact or Mid-size trucks, full-size trucks, and heavy duty trucks. I've always mentally classified trucks in three different size categories, I guess because some trucks just seem small. But after looking at their real world dimensions there's really just two different sized trucks. Trucks @ or shorter than 190-inches, and trucks @ or longer than 200-inches (regular bed/regular cab configurations).

Scion needs to revive the coolness that was the 85 Toyota Xtracab pickup with a turbocharged 4cylinder.



How cool is that?

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Is that the one Victoria Beckham helped design?

I think her name is on the white one.

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

Basically, yeah. You have Compact or Mid-size trucks, full-size trucks, and heavy duty trucks. I've always mentally classified trucks in three different size categories, I guess because some trucks just seem small. But after looking at their real world dimensions there's really just two different sized trucks. Trucks @ or shorter than 190-inches, and trucks @ or longer than 200-inches (regular bed/regular cab configurations).

Scion needs to revive the coolness that was the 85 Toyota Xtracab pickup with a turbocharged 4cylinder.



How cool is that?

Cosign.

Cept use a better Turbo. That 22RET was a cool motor though. Had some nice features. Something like that with a Solid Front Axle would fly off the shelves. BUT would it pass Safety tests?

[madfast]

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

ROFL it's mostly true? It's not even close to true.

My DD is an XRunner. Not because I couldn't afford anything else but because I wanted it. How exactly is an SUV/Crossover a million times better?

They kind of already do. xB and xD. But I don't see them doing anything with AWD or 4WD. I think it would just be too expensive to add.

you are obviously in the minority. the regular joe wouldnt buy a pickup truck to haul kids and groceries around...

how is a suv/crossover better? well for one theres a cargo area instead of a bed. i dunno how many people want to put their stuff in a dirty ass pickup bed with dirt, dust, leaves and bird poo all over it... and do we need to talk about refinement...?

no it wouldnt be too expensive. the RAV4 awd starts at 24k. a smaller scion suv could easily match that pretty well equipped. make it stylish, like all scions, and there you go...
for reference: the Mitsu Outlander sport AWD starts at 23k, and nissan juke awd starts at 21k. the juke, if its styling wasnt so polarizing, would be a great little crossover... something i think scion should do seeing as most of their designs are hatches. lift them up a bit and add awd. done deal.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

http://www.automotive.com/2011/101/f.../2885/compare/

The Tacoma is a full 1 inch longer than the Ranger.

Also there is no Midsize Truck market. It literally does not exist, of course there's a lot of people that will argue that most "Compacts" have become Midsize, there's nothing out there beyond that. So you can't go around quoting it as fact, when it doesn't exist.

All Cars are bigger now. Compare a 2011 Corolla vs a 1995 or 1985. But they are still considered Compacts.

Also they are still much smaller than Full Size Pickups. Have you ever sat in a Tacoma then a Tundra? or a Ranger then a F150? The Full Sizes are HUGE in comparison.

As for the Scion Truck as people are describing it. The only thing it might compare too would be a modern day El Camino. But smaller, which would pretty much negate any usefulness of having a truck. If you can't fit a Lawnmower in the back who's gonna buy it? There's a fine line between being small and cheap enough to be appealing, and too small. There's a lot of risk in that too. I'm sure they could use some of the Parts off the Tacoma. But the frame would have to be a one off, probably not worth it to Toyota.



ROFL it's mostly true? It's not even close to true.

My DD is an XRunner. Not because I couldn't afford anything else but because I wanted it. How exactly is an SUV/Crossover a million times better?

They kind of already do. xB and xD. But I don't see them doing anything with AWD or 4WD. I think it would just be too expensive to add.

There is a market for a small, real pickup with a bed. In Vancouver you may be aware of all the JDM imports here, right? Mostly we pay attention to the Skylines, Aristos, Chasers and such, but a TON of people are importing things like the Subaru Sambar, Honda Acty and similar micro-pickups. They are like little kei-class vans with a pickup or flatdeck bed.



I think that a Toyota truck (normal one, not like the weirdos above^) sized like the old one from the 80's or even a touch smaller, would sell very well, as either a Toyota or Scion. Scion could try to go for a mini-truck revival, whereas as a Toyota it would appeal to budget minded small business owners. Oh, and throw in a 1.6L-2.0L turbo diesel in it.