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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


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Old 04-14-2019, 10:57 PM   #15
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I'm exploring more camber this year, may go up more in front. Also may try a 1k lower front spring vs rear later in the season. Trade-offs. I think wet/cold/ crap surface suffers at higher rates, and grippy loves it. Especially in how the car works through hard transitions: slaloms and offsets, and how you can apply throttle, how late you can brake. So not sure if that means up in the back or down in the front. 2k spread was too snappy for my liking.

Or maybe I'll just drive it and have fun.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:58 AM   #16
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Another setup

I'm enjoying this thread! I posted my previous setup, about three years ago. I've learned a lot since then, and changed a few things around.

The advice to copy the top finishing cars is very good advice. I try to do this, but I'm still convinced to do some R&D on my car occasionally.

For this year, I traded in my 2013 Limited BRZ and bought a 2013 Premium BRZ. My previous car had some issues I didn't care for, primarily with fitment of everything, and a mystery engine power issue. I drove enough other BRZs and FRSs in the last year to know they all vary slightly, and mine was a dud. I sold that car to someone who has the time, inclination, and ability, to fix it.

Regarding the mystery engine power issue: after I sold my Limited, and bought a different Premium, WTY-84 was announced! I have not autocrossed my current 2013, yet, and I'm getting the recall work done next week at a dealer who is performing 10 of these a week (lots of Imprezas). I'm feeling good about the outcome.

Suspension
Dampers: RCE Tarmac 3's (Recommended valving)
Springs: 500F/500R (aka 9k)
Sway Bars: Whiteline 22mm adjustable front (full stiff), Mann 13mm adjustable rear (medium)
Rear LCA: SPC with DIF bushing
Front Endlinks: Hotchkis adjustable (custom shortened)
Rear Endlinks: Perrin polyurethane

Alignment & Suspension Settings
Ride Height: 33cm hub center to fender (higher than last year)
Slow speed: 4 from soft
Highspeed: 4 from soft
Rebound: 10 from soft
Alignment: -3.6 camber, 1/8" toe out front | -2.6 camber, 1/16" toe in rear | ~6 caster front (I stopped trying to change my KPA)
KW recessed front camber plates for Club Sports
MSI rear strut mount plates, custom KW spring perches

Engine & Drivetrain
WTY-84 (lol)
Header: nameless 4-2-1 (custom fab 2.5")
Exhaust: 2.5" custom
Intake: Stock box with K&N filter and Mishimoto inlet
ECU: EcuTek custom tune
LSD: Guard Transmission

Wheels/Tires, etc
Wheels: 17x9 Enkei RPF1 45mm offset
Tires: Bridgestone RE-71R, BFG Rival S 1.5 or Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (245/40-17)
Brakes: Stock calipers, Hawk HP+ pads, DBA 5000 front rotors
Battery: Shorai 5 lb
Bushings: Yes, Whiteline and SuperPro. The remaining stock ones are on the differential, but those have Whiteline inserts.

Similar to the statement from a fellow poster, I do drive a different car in ice racing, I have gone to a Dirtfish two-day class, The Subaru Winter Experience with Patrik Sandell (of Subaru Motorsports and ARX), and I'm always thinking a little bit different about car setup and lines on course because of that.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:20 PM   #17
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However! Wheel offset can be a noticeable change in handling, going with the +45's and extended studs means I can easily go +10 on each wheel and play with it, wish I could say I did it on purpose but I lucked into it and I'm glad I have the option. (as you can see Tony is running staggered up above, and he's underselling himself, he's got a good setup going)
It's not to say that my setup is bad - not at all. But after driving Terence's car ONCE, yeah my car is just OK. His car is insanely good and stupid easy to drive. At one of the last El Toro events in his car I cleared my car's best time by a second, and felt like there was some time left to get. Lots of other well known CalClub folks all drove my car that day and liked it, but noted its just not as stable and easy to drive.

On wheel offset: I was at +35 all around and the car was fine, but I would hit cones with the rear tires more often than not without realizing. After talking to Terence a little he mentioned staggering the offset and after I did that, no more phantom slalom cones.

Seriously Jon & Terence did a ridiculously good job of setting up that car. It's not surprising, but damn I don't think I could ever do it as well as they did.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:35 PM   #18
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I'm exploring more camber this year, may go up more in front. Also may try a 1k lower front spring vs rear later in the season. Trade-offs. I think wet/cold/ crap surface suffers at higher rates, and grippy loves it. Especially in how the car works through hard transitions: slaloms and offsets, and how you can apply throttle, how late you can brake. So not sure if that means up in the back or down in the front. 2k spread was too snappy for my liking.

Or maybe I'll just drive it and have fun.
Have you verified your tire temps to see if you NEED more camber? Less guessing and more science makes for more fun behind the wheel and a better set up.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:24 PM   #19
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It's not to say that my setup is bad - not at all. But after driving Terence's car ONCE, yeah my car is just OK. His car is insanely good and stupid easy to drive. At one of the last El Toro events in his car I cleared my car's best time by a second, and felt like there was some time left to get. Lots of other well known CalClub folks all drove my car that day and liked it, but noted its just not as stable and easy to drive.

On wheel offset: I was at +35 all around and the car was fine, but I would hit cones with the rear tires more often than not without realizing. After talking to Terence a little he mentioned staggering the offset and after I did that, no more phantom slalom cones.

Seriously Jon & Terence did a ridiculously good job of setting up that car. It's not surprising, but damn I don't think I could ever do it as well as they did.
What is good/different about it, that isn't a secret?
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:31 PM   #20
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What is good/different about it, that isn't a secret?
I don't think anything is really a secret, and I'm certain Jon posted the specifics some time ago but I don't know where. Then everyone was like "it's too soft and will never work."

Top line summary is what I mentioned in my setup post. Good EL header and full exhaust with custom tune, OSGiken, Mann rear bar and some spring rate changes. The EL has more top end without sacrificing the midrange gain, OSG stabilizes the car on entry and puts down power better on exit, rear bar and springs are to compensate for the OSG's handling characteristics.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincoln Logs View Post
Have you verified your tire temps to see if you NEED more camber? Less guessing and more science makes for more fun behind the wheel and a better set up.

I'm checking temps, yes. They're inconsistent depending on temps and surface. Or because I am. Or both. Easy change for me though, so trying some things and checking data.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:31 PM   #22
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iirc that car was 5k F, 9k R, AST triple adjustables with Mann engineering assistance who I believe would happily assist most anyone in getting the right parts on the car. @oinojo posted something about it I think in a thread about ride height started by @cjd @jwisjw posted in there too about the travel he gets on the Megans (and I was a **** non believer back then)

The trick does seem to be diff+spring+bar with that setup as I struggled with an almost identical spring setup on the stock diff and bar, but there were certainly other factors affecting me back then.

On temps I've done stupid things because that's what the temps told me, like running 37 psi hot and thinking -3 camber was enough. Test with a clock, watch wear patterns, explore the envelope when you can to make sure you're in the right spot.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:29 PM   #23
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Here's my setup, going on 2nd year without any real changes.

Suspension
MCS 2WR, 400/400 rates with Raceseng CasCam in front and 1" hats in back
Racer-X RLCA with a custom housing for DIF delrin bushings
Perrin adjustable front 22mm), Mann 13mm adjustable rear (usually set to medium)
Whiteline KLC180-195 front endlinks
Racer-X rear endlinks
All the whiteline poly things: diff inserts, subframe inserts

Alignment
Camber: -3.5*F, around -2*R
Toe: 0 front, slightest toe in for the rear
Caster: 6*? ish? irrc

Haven't measured ride height in a long time, but I am probably going to go to 4* or more of camber on my next alignment, just to try to keep off the shoulders.

Engine/Drivetrain bits
ACE A-350
JDL Ultra Quiet Front Pipe
Perrin 2.5" resonated catback
K&N Panel filter
Perrin intake elbow thing
Full sized battery (lol)
ECUtek with tune from VitViper
LSD: OS Giken with "stx" tune (1-way and whatever other special sauce thrown in)

Wheels/tires:
2 sets of Konig Hypergrams, 17x9 +40
1 set of Konig Ultraforms, 17x9 +40
1 set of Kosei K6R, 17x9 +42
1 set of Enkei rpf1, 17x9 +35 (daily driver setup, Conti ECS).

The only other that I have that is a bit atypical is a Personal Grinta steering wheel with QR (and spacer weights to make it class legal). That's mostly for my comfort on long drives so I can sit how I want). If 949 comes out with the spacer for the stock steering wheel I'll probably add that back in.

I bounce around between re71s and rivals for the autox stuff, depending on weather and location. For packwood the Re71s seems to do better, though on a warm summer event I'll run the rivals. For crow's landing the BFGs suit me better. I just flipped two sets of re71s and they're terrible so now those are Evo school or really small/bullshit local sets because of how bad they are lol.

Of course the missing component to all this is talent. Womp womp.
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:17 PM   #24
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Hi tony_r, which wheel spacers are you using?
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:32 PM   #25
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Hi tony_r, which wheel spacers are you using?
Just some random Amazon 5mm spacers I think.
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Old 04-17-2019, 07:39 AM   #26
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iirc that car was 5k F, 9k R, AST triple adjustables with Mann engineering assistance who I believe would happily assist most anyone in getting the right parts on the car. @oinojo posted something about it I think in a thread about ride height started by @cjd @jwisjw posted in there too about the travel he gets on the Megans (and I was a **** non believer back then)

The trick does seem to be diff+spring+bar with that setup as I struggled with an almost identical spring setup on the stock diff and bar, but there were certainly other factors affecting me back then.

On temps I've done stupid things because that's what the temps told me, like running 37 psi hot and thinking -3 camber was enough. Test with a clock, watch wear patterns, explore the envelope when you can to make sure you're in the right spot.
Big front bar with their setup?
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Old 04-17-2019, 08:15 AM   #27
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Suspension/Align
ProParts Megans - 6k/7k (350/400)
8-12 clicks from soft front, 18-24 clicks rear
From pinch: 5 1/8" front, 4 5/8" rear
F: -4.3 camber, 0 toe
R: -2.5 camber, 1/16 total toe-in
22mm Perrin on medium
SPC arms w/ FRSport delrin inserts

Engine
Tomei UEL, HPS Tube, Perrin filter, Perrin 2.5" cat-back, custom OFT tune

Wheel/Tire/Brake
Both 245/40/17 REs and Rivals for whatever surface
17x9 TRM C4, +35 front +40 rear (spacers)
Ferodo DS 1.11 front, DS2500 rear, GT3 front ducts

Car works fine and can run with upper mid pack easy. Will not beat well setup cars with awesome drivers. Needs a diff, Mann rear bar, good EL header and full exhaust with custom tune to make up the difference. Also could use some more rear rate as it sits.
Where is the rear illegal CR Wing?

Whoops wait wrong car...
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Old 04-17-2019, 08:39 AM   #28
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I'm pretty much full lemming here.

2016 Scion FRS:

Suspension:
MCS 2W Remotes - Custom Revalve & Piston
400/350 Rates
Raceseng Camber Plates/Raceseng 1" Top Hats in Rear
Front: -4.2* Camber, 0 Toe
Rear: -2.5* Camber, 1/16" Total In
Ride Height - Front Wheels 25" from floor to center of fender above wheel. Rear set for 1/8" Rake
Perrin 22m Front bar set on Soft/McMaster Carr Custom Endlinks (Soon to be Karwan FSB)
Mann Rear Bar set of Stiff (I adjust all the time though). RacerX Endlinks
RacerX LCA
Whiteline Subframe Insert Bushings

Engine:
aFe Momentum Intake
JDL 4-2-1 Header
JDL Ultra Quiet FP/OP Combo w/Cat
Perrin 2.5" Exhaust
MotoEast/XeroLimit Custom Dyno Tune

Wheels/Tires/Misc
AP Racing BBK w/Ferodo DS2500s
RPF1s 17x9 +35 with 245/40/17 RivalS 1.5s
Antigravity 680CA Battery w/PFTuning Tray

IMO, car doesn't need a diff. Lugod is not stupid, he knows how to setup cars and clearly has mastered a setup around an OSG...however don't think you're going to instantly find seconds with going to an OSG. I could be wrong, but meh.

Played around with spring rates. Ended up softer in the rear on purpose because I like running more shock when possible. Revalve for this season should help running less shock when needed for wet or asphalt conditions. Car is pretty much money on concrete IMO.

Changed around alignment settings this year. Use to run -3.5* Up front and -1/16" out. So we'll see what does that. I think I was sacrificing some front grip.
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