Less than 100 kms and I already need a new windshield...

[Ultramaroon]

[pedantic]Technically, the property at play here is not hardness, it's toughness.[/pedantic]

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

[pedantic]Technically, the property at play here is not hardness, it's toughness.[/pedantic]

Exactly.
The actual article I read (in a trade magazine made out of real paper) was about 30 pages long and went into much more detail about the results of the changes. If I recall toughness was mentioned many times.

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Exactly.
The actual article I read (in a trade magazine made out of real paper) was about 30 pages long and went into much more detail about the results of the changes. If I recall toughness was mentioned many times.

Still, standards don't mean quality, they just establish a baseline.

I also find it hard to believe that your windshield has no pitting. I have several pits in the windshield but so far minimal paint chipping at <7k miles.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gtengr

Still, standards don't mean quality, they just establish a baseline.

I also find it hard to believe that your windshield has no pitting. I have several pits in the windshield but so far minimal paint chipping at <7k miles.

No pitting and many chips. Windshields are a safety device and not open to materials below the standards.

[Ultramaroon]

I think it comes down to the conditions in which we spend most of the time operating our vehicles. I have a crapload of little pits in my windshield but I daily my car in heavy traffic and often end up stuck behind a truck or trailer that looks like it had just been dug out of a swamp.

I rarely hear windshield strikes when I'm moving at higher speeds along the open highway.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I think it comes down to the conditions in which we spend most of the time operating our vehicles. I have a crapload of little pits in my windshield but I daily my car in heavy traffic and often end up stuck behind a truck or trailer that looks like it had just been dug out of a swamp.

I rarely hear windshield strikes when I'm moving at higher speeds along the open highway.

This ^. We have windshield at are barely 5 feet off the ground. They take some shit.

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Windshields are a safety device and not open to materials below the standards.

But they are open to materials above those standards. For example, a Bugatti windshield might have higher clarity and resistance to pitting than the windshield on a Subaru.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gtengr

But they are open to materials above those standards. For example, a Bugatti windshield might have higher clarity and resistance to pitting than the windshield on a Subaru.

yes that I agree to. It is the often repeated statement that the glass in the Subaru's is somehow substandard, light or "cheap" that I object to. Of course there can be better but that doesn't change the fact there is a minimum requirement. The thought that every car on the road has better glass is mistaken.

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

yes that I agree to. It is the often repeated statement that the glass in the Subaru's is somehow substandard, light or "cheap" that I object to. Of course there can be better but that doesn't change the fact there is a minimum requirement. The thought that every car on the road has better glass is mistaken.

Looks like you, me, and ultra will have to share that most pedantic poster of the thread award.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

In 2011 the governments around the world agreed to reduce the amount of VOCs (volatile organic compounds) in paint. Heavy restrictions were placed on what chemicals could be used by the automotive industry.
Unfortunately many of those chemicals were what made the paint strong yet resilient. The application processes in use were not suitable for the new chemistry and we ended up with hard, brittle, coatings that chip easily especially with small impact surface areas.

To visualize what happened just paint a pool ball and a tennis ball and drop each. The paint on the pool ball will chip since it can not flex. The tennis ball paint will remain fine. The same thing applies to the paint itself. If it can flex a bit it will resist chipping if it can not then there is a problem. Putting more or harder paint on will not eliminate the problem but actually makes it worse.

The good news is that the paint application technology has now caught up to the new chemistry and as the plants update their equipment we will see a big improvement in the durability of the finish. The Corvette assembly plant in Bowling Green is shutting down for a bit to change their whole paint system over to the new tech even though what they had was only from 2003. I suspect that the Subaru plant making the Twins may have been a bit behind the curve in the equipment updates.

Neat, wasn't aware of the issues moving away from VOC paints caused. I know it caused issues with paint adhesion, like on all those white trucks that the paint came off in sheets. I do know that the paint on my car is both too soft and too hard, chipping from rocks and very easily scratching if it's so much as breathed on. BMW and Mercedes I know have some really tough paint scratch resistance wise, don't know about chipping though.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by gtengr

Looks like you, me, and ultra will have to share that most pedantic poster of the thread award.

No way I'm sharing that one.

'Quality' pertains to variation in measured properties of a manufactured product. It has nothing to do with the value of those properties. For instance, a Big Mac is a high quality product because it looks and tastes exactly the same no matter where you get one.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Neat, wasn't aware of the issues moving away from VOC paints caused. I know it caused issues with paint adhesion, like on all those white trucks that the paint came off in sheets. I do know that the paint on my car is both too soft and too hard, chipping from rocks and very easily scratching if it's so much as breathed on. BMW and Mercedes I know have some really tough paint scratch resistance wise, don't know about chipping though.

Actually the main reason why people would know is when local governments start adopting this. I knew about the regulations long ago because California already had banned VOC paints and switched to waterborne paints.

A lot of car guys complain about cars being painted in California because they've adopted similar standards to what major OEMs have agreed to, and it shows up as "inferior" paint if you talk to enough body shop guys. Many are simply because of inconsistent product deployment from the manufacturer, causing teething problems in the paint shops.

https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2012...-auto-industry

The longer this is in place, the better the paint quality will be.