Base Cayman vs BRZ

[Rai-zero]

Help me decide, I'm sure this has been discussed but for my specific example.

I have a decision to make.

Prior cars S2000 and e92 M3 (with DCT).

I miss both cars, but feel like the S2000 was the better car (considering the cost difference). IOW the M3 was not twice as nice as the S2000.

I found the S2000 too small (I'm 6'2") sure was able to fit in the car but not well.

I found the M3 was great in almost every way except the size/weight and while I did love the DCT, I found that I just left it on drive and was more or less just a fast car not as fun as the S2000 (combination of smaller weight and the 6MT).

I didn't like the S2000 as much when it got to 9/10th limit because it was quite a tricky car when it got to the edge.

Now I'm trying to get a sports car that splits the difference between the S2000 and the M3 (Cayman) or that is just a more friendly substitute for the S2000 (BRZ).

I drove them both. However these are test drives maybe 7-8 miles each drive (BRZ used, BRZ new and Cayman new). I can not be sure if the BRZ is just rite or if I'll regret the power dip.

Full disclosure, I don't need/want a fast car. I can't drive extra fast because of safety as well as law enforcement and I don't go to the track.

The Cayman which I drove was new with the turbo 4 and the PDK, but I believe will look at the prior generation Cayman with 2.7L H6 with 275HP and 213TQ. The Cayman is slightly larger than the BRZ around 6 inches longer and 100 lbs heavier.

I have not decided yet but there is a 2014 Cayman with 6MT that I plan to look at. It's kind of middle optioned which was mainly the convenience package and seats/leather but no major performance options. I think it's set up more as a light sporty. Here is a $40K Cayman https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=199744682


When I drove both the 2017 Cayman and the BRZ it was night and day with the BRZ interior like a $20K car and the Cayman obviously much more solid.

However I am not overly concerned with the BRZ, if it has some hard plastics etc. That's not what I'm buying for. I am mostly buying for fun and sporty car. I don't care if one can do 0-100 a second faster. I am not really interested in fast car. I drove a 911 turbo a while back, I drove a M3 414 HP which would leave these two cars for dead form a stop. But what I found that fast cars are more fun when you drive them fast. While a car like 200-275 HP less than 3000 pounds can be fun with less speed.

[Rai-zero]

BRZ limited with PP(performance package) before taxes is around $28K

Pros
-cheaper
-new
-has some better features like keyless go (which I really like)
-less costly to repair (I assume)
-less likely to need repair (I assume)
-back seat (small but it's something). I hardly used the back seat of the M3 but they were much larger than the BRZ space but overall the back seat area is a slight plus for the BRZ

Cons
-less power (not that I care a lot but it's not like either one is fast, but the BRZ probably feels much slower this is just a guess on my part)
-less prestigious (not that I care, but just that the Porsche is an arrival car and the BRZ is not really)
-May be more noise in the cabin (not sure)

Cayman
pros/cons pretty much the exact same in reverse (more money, more power, nicer interior etc.)

One pro would be the Cayman *may* depreciate less since it was $70K now is $40K however it can depreciate less but still may lose more money on depreciation.

for example if BRS is worth $14K in 5 years that means I lost half or $14K (for example), if the Cayman is worth $26K in 5 years it only lost 35% but it still lost the same amount $14K because it's more expensive plus likely the Cayman will cost more to keep running in those 5 years.

[Pat]

I had a 986 and now a BRZ. Based on your priorities I'd go with the BRZ. But honestly, they're both great cars. I doubt you'd regret either one. If you think the S2000 is tricky at the limit you may want to stick with a front-engined, lower HP car.
BRZs certainly aren't as fun as Caymans. But they're probably 85% as fund at half(?) the price. At that point it just comes down to your priorities. Whatever you go with, don't look back and just embrace it. They're both a ton of fun.

[GrantedTaken]

Get the BRZ.
If you truly hate it, you can upgrade.
But, I doubt you will.

[Rai-zero]

Thanks.

I am just like to touch all the bases, do my homework. I have 5 cars already (for myself and wife/kids) and the new car will be in addition to not replacing one of those cars. So while the cost is in insurmountable, it's just better to get the cheaper car and can keep my Legacy wagon for snow. It's not worth a lot maybe $5K but it costs to insure and maintain extra cars.

My main area of concern with the Cayman is the long gearing that is 2nd gear is good for 80 mph on the current gen car. I'm not sure about the 2014 car but maybe it's 70-80 MPH.

I drive for run on back roads where the speed limits is 40 (ish) maybe I can hit 60 mph safely. I don't know if I'm having fun when I'm just using 2nd gear for everything (I mean back roads) whereas the new BRS had a higher FD ratio with 2nd gear maybe 55 and 3rd gear maybe 80 (?). I am not sure the exact figures but do know that the Cayman would not need as many shifts on a typical back road. And that's partly why I am buying the car is the 6MT.

I had the S2000 and while it may not have needed it, but I put in higher FD ratio so it felt more punch from because of more leverage in the gearing. It didn't help the HW speeds when I was buzzing along at 5000 rpm in 6th.

[fatoni]

the cayman is probably better at being the frs than the frs is and its definitely better at being the cayman.

[Rai-zero]

Originally Posted by fatoni

the cayman is probably better at being the frs than the frs is and its definitely better at being the cayman.

ha

[Spuds]

Disclaimer, I have never driven a Cayman, though I sometimes really really want one lol. I have, however, driven a substantial portion of the fun back roads in Baltimore County in the FRS.

My take, back road driving is the twins' bread and butter. You aren't going to be able to drive any faster in the Porsche than a twin unless you drive with reckless abandon. I have yet to encounter a back road where you can actually push 8/10ths of the cars ability safely. I doubt the Porsche is any more fun in this setting. If you had said you did track driving, Porsche 100%.

If you like casual wrenching in the garage like me, the twins are super easy to work on. There's a host of relatively cheap aftermarket bits you can add if that's something you want to try.

If you can tolerate a BRZ's lackluster highway performance and refinement vs the Porsche, get the BRZ. I personally think PP is a waste if you just want a toy, but to each their own.

Also, the BRZ come with an awesome, if sometimes mildly disfunctional community, so there's that.

[Yoniyama]

I own both a base 2016 Cayman (2.7 flat-6) with PDK AND a FT-86 (auto), both bought new.

The Cayman is a complete package, not much to be done to improve performance. It is heavier and feels heavier. Much more solid. Sounds great. And a fool-proof car, you can exceed the limit of any public road at any traffic condition without trying.

To me, the FT-86 is a 85% complete package. The driver is supposed to fit the last few items in accordance with his personal preference. As stock, it shows potential, but distinctly deficient and cries out for the 'finishing touch'.

In my case, I fitted:
-Super-light 16-inch wheels (TE-37) that weighs 11.5lb each.
-Two-piece front brake rotors (saving 6lb per rotor).
-Full set of chassis re-inforcement bars. (adding about 25lb)
-60lb of sound insulation pads all around.
-Carbon-fibre driveshaft.
-Light-weight rear suspension links (saving 4lb per set).
-Fluidampr crank pulley.
- intake and front exhaust of the manual FT-86 (ie equal length header and bigger down-pipe).
-Laguna90 Cat-back exhaust system by ACE.

And a few other minor performance items. But I kept OEM spring and dampers.

Post-mod, compared with my Cayman, the FT-86 feels:

(1) Nimble and fun, though less powerful;
(2) Less claustrophobic;
(3) Requires more attention to drive quickly;
(4) Miserable headlights;
(5) Usefully less wide in body width;
(6) Short legs (tiny fuel tank);
(7) Much cheaper running and maintaining cost;
(8) Better outward visibility;
(9) Paint easier to get chipped than the Cayman;
(10) Narrower power band (no torque below 3,000 rpm, too rough above 5,000 rpm); and
(11) The Aisin 6-speed is a good conventional automatic transmission, but the dual-clutch PDK of the Cayman is just amazing. And with 7-speed, there is always a right gear for any situation.

In summary, I feel my FT-86 (after mod), is cheap and cheerful; and the Cayman is a more 'grown-up' sports car. I hope the above gives you an impression of a car owner with both cars in possession.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Yoniyama

To me, the FT-86 is a 85% complete package. The driver is supposed to fit the last few items in accordance with his personal preference. As stock, it shows potential, but distinctly deficient and cries out for the 'finishing touch'.

I'mma steal this for the next time I have to describe an 86 to someone. Eloquent and accurate.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Yoniyama

I own both a base 2016 Cayman (2.7 flat-6) with PDK AND a FT-86 (auto), both bought new.

The Cayman is a complete package, not much to be done to improve performance. It is heavier and feels heavier. Much more solid. Sounds great. And a fool-proof car, you can exceed the limit of any public road at any traffic condition without trying.

To me, the FT-86 is a 85% complete package. The driver is supposed to fit the last few items in accordance with his personal preference. As stock, it shows potential, but distinctly deficient and cries out for the 'finishing touch'.

In my case, I fitted:
-Super-light 16-inch wheels (TE-37) that weighs 11.5lb each.
-Two-piece front brake rotors (saving 6lb per rotor).
-Full set of chassis re-inforcement bars. (adding about 25lb)
-60lb of sound insulation pads all around.
-Carbon-fibre driveshaft.
-Light-weight rear suspension links (saving 4lb per set).
-Fluidampr crank pulley.
- intake and front exhaust of the manual FT-86 (ie equal length header and bigger down-pipe).
-Laguna90 Cat-back exhaust system by ACE.

Any pictures of your car with the 16" wheels?

[switchlanez]

One of my posts from this thread on the same topic:

TL;DR: I prefer the base Cayman over the S and prefer my BRZ with mods over both because of the more visceral experience.

(Pic shows 718 but I test drove 981.1 base and S models.)

Originally Posted by switchlanez

Interesting thread! I just found and read through all of it and totally relate but with more interest in the 981. Here's a facebook status I posted yesterday with some of my comments merged in:

After months of pondering, I finally test drove the 981 Cayman and Cayman S (ignore the 718 I'm parked next to in pic) to see if I'd like either more than my BRZ enough to sell it. Conclusion: Inconclusive �� and base model was more enjoyable than S on the street.



Why? Base model just felt like a smaller car (same dimensions as S but lighter) and more visceral with very slightly more communicative feedback. Both had the sport seats that hug your body and base had an optional sport steering wheel (smaller diameter) but I doubt that was the difference. S felt floatier (felt like +150-200 lbs of optional/std eq't). When I opened throttle on the S enough to hear the motor/exhaust sweet spot, I was already going too fast for public roads. With the base model I heard the sweet motor/exhaust more often. S felt overkill for the street (like I could only experience <50% of its potential before breaking the law) but probably perfect for the track.

My main disappointments with the 981 Cayman and Cayman S:

1) Drove them aggressively through some esses and they handled great with road feedback albeit "filtered" through its semi-luxurious, heavier chassis vs. my BRZ (only added TRD springs/sways + Bilstein shocks + wheels/tires) communicates raw information more directly to its driver. BRZ's center of gravity is supposedly lower than the Cayman's and my hip really feels it sits below the center of mass. That sensation is vague in the Cayman, worse in the Cayman S. The old school hydraulic steering found in the 987 Cayman might be a Hail Mary to help with viscerality.

2) The Caymans have to build N/A power through revs. My BRZ's positive-displacement supercharger spoils me with instant torque. It's probably faster than the base Cayman and slower than the S but the BRZ's sensation of speed is greater because of that instant torque coupled with being a few hundred pounds lighter and amplified by greater road-to-driver feedback... sensory overload. The 718 Cayman's turbo fixes power delivery but maybe not item 1.

The Caymans I drove were PDK (all they had in stock, downshifts are awesome) so maybe I'm missing out not trying stick but I don't expect much. Against a stock BRZ, Cayman could arguably win. My BRZ with simple suspension and forced induction mods may not win in track times or luxury but does in driver enjoyment (so far).

Later in the thread I say get a Cayman if you don't already have an 86. You might also want to consider an Elise. Even more visceral than an 86. Depends on where you want to be on the visceral spectrum.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Rai-zero

I drive for run on back roads where the speed limits is 40 (ish) maybe I can hit 60 mph safely. I don't know if I'm having fun when I'm just using 2nd gear for everything (I mean back roads) whereas the new BRS had a higher FD ratio with 2nd gear maybe 55 and 3rd gear maybe 80 (?). I am not sure the exact figures but do know that the Cayman would not need as many shifts on a typical back road. And that's partly why I am buying the car is the 6MT.

The Cayman is supposed to be more a GT car for long commute. It is common for many European cars, where you travel across the countries. In Germany there are no speed limits in parts of the autobahn and in a few other countries the speed limits are not "strictly" followed. Japanese cars never had long gearing (i.e. long final drive), because their domestic market is different. They have to install a silly 180km/h limiter. Even if you buy a GT-R, the limiter is electronically removed by a GPS device only on specific tracks. All these if you want to stay legal ...

On a typical back road you'll have to shift less , but Cayman has enough torque to keep you going and have fun. Besides it is not safe to go flat out on back roads. Much more different environment than an autobahn road.

So, I would say that the Cayman is a more complete car. At least for the European market. The BRZ can come close to these cars, but you'll need to start modifying and it is not always easy.

[DAEMANO]

BRZ/86 "deficiencies" are almost all solvable in the aftermarket for as little or as much as you might want to spend. It's lighter, less serious and cheap to maintain.

A PP BRZ w/ Flex Fuel and header needs nothing more really. If you want more power/torque than that, then there are at least 15-20 comprehensive F.I. options. For more comfort add sound deadening maybe? More grip, add tires. That's about it.

However, if you want prestige, look somewhere else. As beloved as this platform is, there are plenty more expensive cars that definitely feel like they cost more and have the brand to get attention. The 86 value proposition is spend less off the lot, get stupidly fun handling car, that also has the ability to make it your own with a huge aftermarket. If you don't value or prioritize traits like these, then the Cayman might be a better fit.