ACE Header Questions...

[CounterSpace Garage]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

This is a point that needs to be reinforced all the time. So many like to look at HP numbers that they tend to overlook the low end torque that actually makes the car feel faster. HP is how fast you can go but torque (especially low end) is how quickly you get there. These cars make HP through revs and that means they sacrifice the low end torque to get it. Bring that low end up (and don't sweat the dip since it is mid range) and you will have a faster feeling car.

On one of our customer's cars, the datalogs displayed significant velocity deltas between the ACE A-350 and another header on the same course and relatively similar conditions. Not 100% apples to apples, but a solid display of acceleration differences.

[FunnyGopher]

Originally Posted by NAEightySix

... can you *feel* a difference?

If you're asking me if I could feel my body be pushed back into my seat all the way to redline while my foot's on the floor, then hell yeah I could *feel* a difference. The car isn't even the same anymore. Header and tune netted me 20% more HP and TQ over stock. Definitely worth the money.

Side note, I had the 91 octane tune for about a month, and got to feel ^^^ everyday. I am now in the process of having the car tuned with the Delicious Flex Fuel kit, and my goodness. Words can't even describe, and I've only ever driven on E44. I can only imagine what E85 feels like.

[Lantanafrs2]

It will probably feel like a 200hp 2800 pound sports car.

[sw20kosh]

Its a night and day difference.

[RJasonKlein]

It totally changes the way the car drives and performs - and, yes, you will definitely ‘feel’ the increased power and torque. I have heavily modified my car and the ACE header is my favorite modification so far.

[nikitopo]

@NAEightySix: Get a good tune on your car with a more free air filter and w/o changing the header (stock). You'll get a 10-15 hp peak gain accordingly to the tuner knowledge. You might also get a bit better power on the mid rev range. It depends if the tuner will focus there or not. Will you feel an overall difference? Yes. Then change to an ACE header and a re-tune and compare.

[bfrank1972]

Can't comment on the ACE, but adding my header made quite a few noticeable differences:

- car is definitely more responsive and peppy where the torque dip was, which is where my tach lives most of the time when I'm commuting.

- car definitely has a big surge around 3.5k-5.5k then again 6.5k to red line. Car is definitely faster. Does it make the car e92 m3 fast. Lol no. But I think it makes it e36 m3 fast (or close).

- car feels more visceral, partly to the different and more aggressive power delivery vs stock, partly because of the extra noise and vibration under my feet, and noise out the back.

Placebo? Sure that's probably some of it, feels more racey. But the power is there, and while there is a difference on the top end, the low and mid range is where it really shines. Besides, don't care if some of it is placebo as long as I'm having fun.

If you are looking to improve your power delivery, then add a header and tune to the top of your list. Nothing else on the exhaust side really makes much of a difference (power wise). Next decision is how much are you prepared to spend - I'm about $750 all in for my header and OFT.


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[LeviDane]

Originally Posted by FunnyGopher

If you're asking me if I could feel my body be pushed back into my seat all the way to redline while my foot's on the floor, then hell yeah I could *feel* a difference. The car isn't even the same anymore. Header and tune netted me 20% more HP and TQ over stock. Definitely worth the money.

Side note, I had the 91 octane tune for about a month, and got to feel ^^^ everyday. I am now in the process of having the car tuned with the Delicious Flex Fuel kit, and my goodness. Words can't even describe, and I've only ever driven on E44. I can only imagine what E85 feels like.

Lol it makes a difference but i'm sorry this car does not give you that pushed back in your seat feeling. It just doesn't have enough torque. But it will feel a bit more alive for sure.


Believe me i want that feeling but unless you have serious FI the GT86 won't provide it.

[FastWhite]

I was in the same boat as you. Didn't know if I wanted to spend the money on the ace 350 header. With all the hype. So I went with a different route, I installed a jdl equal length header. Dynotune I netted 198 wheel horsepower, and 158 wheel torque.
I was happy.
I then drove my friend's car with the ace 350 header plus the delicious tune, I WAS NO LONGER HAPPY. With the difference I felt in torque, I went out and purchased the ace 350 plus delicious tune.
I have yet to go and have my car get a baseline dyno.
From the seat of the pants driving, the big difference I find is with the ace header there is torque from 3000 RPM and up. With my jdl header I had very good top end but I still had a surge at the 4600 RPM mark. Torque dip was pretty much gone but the placebo effect said that I still had a torque dip. So the placebo effect says with the ace header it's all eliminated.
The only thing I can say about the ace header, due to the difference , slight as it may be, the choice could be made for the 400 header that Nets you a bit more torque. I had an M3 Roadster, on a 90 degree turn in 3rd gear I could swing the back end out easily. Torque is my friend, it makes driving the car everyday much more enjoyable.
After driving for 45 years, I can tell a slight difference no matter what goes into the car or not. And I am sure everybody will say that it is Placebo or in my mind. Guess what guys you're not in my mind.
If your budget allows go for it you will not be disappointed.
The only thing I could suggest, is test drive someone's car that has the ace header installed plus tune.


Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[FastWhite]

Originally Posted by LeviDane

Lol it makes a difference but i'm sorry this car does not give you that pushed back in your seat feeling. It just doesn't have enough torque. But it will feel a bit more alive for sure.


Believe me i want that feeling but unless you have serious FI the GT86 won't provide it.

Agreed. A twin is is not and will never compete w o th FI. Unless you have unlimited funds and build the cheap out of it.
And for argument sake, I saw a TV shootout, between 8 cars or so, some sponsored most not. Insane HP levels. The one NA car, came in second.

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[NAEightySix]

Originally Posted by FastWhite

I was in the same boat as you. Didn't know if I wanted to spend the money on the ace 350 header. With all the hype. So I went with a different route, I installed a jdl equal length header. Dynotune I netted 198 wheel horsepower, and 158 wheel torque.
I was happy.
I then drove my friend's car with the ace 350 header plus the delicious tune, I WAS NO LONGER HAPPY. With the difference I felt in torque, I went out and purchased the ace 350 plus delicious tune.
I have yet to go and have my car get a baseline dyno.
From the seat of the pants driving, the big difference I find is with the ace header there is torque from 3000 RPM and up. With my jdl header I had very good top end but I still had a surge at the 4600 RPM mark. Torque dip was pretty much gone but the placebo effect said that I still had a torque dip. So the placebo effect says with the ace header it's all eliminated.
The only thing I can say about the ace header, due to the difference , slight as it may be, the choice could be made for the 400 header that Nets you a bit more torque. I had an M3 Roadster, on a 90 degree turn in 3rd gear I could swing the back end out easily. Torque is my friend, it makes driving the car everyday much more enjoyable.
After driving for 45 years, I can tell a slight difference no matter what goes into the car or not. And I am sure everybody will say that it is Placebo or in my mind. Guess what guys you're not in my mind.
If your budget allows go for it you will not be disappointed.
The only thing I could suggest, is test drive someone's car that has the ace header installed plus tune.


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Wow, I mean I doubt anybody in the Miami area has one installed, but I DID drive somebody’s car with an equal length JDL header and an OFT tune. It didn’t feel much different at all to me than stock... in fact, I kept trying to tell myself it felt different but all I found different was the sound and *maybe* top end power delivery, lol. That’s why I’m looking for something that’ll really change up the way the car delivers power while staying N/A, if that makes sense.


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[Hades]

^^ Keep in mind, if he had the OTS OFT tune, it is not optimized (specifically) for the JDL header, so it won't get as much as a tune optimized for the header.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by LeviDane

It will certainly feel different and faster compared to stock. This is a combination of Placibo, Sound and actual performance. However ACE vs Other tune and Headers might be an additional 5-10hp? You will barely feel that and a real world difference on the average road is absolutely minimal. It will be 90% placebo. Is ACE worth the extra money over the others. Depends on your goals and spare money you have to throw away.

I personally disagree with the bolded part of your statement. All the dyno's I have seen of ACE headers produce more torque in DD'able RPM ranges then any other header.

Anyone with an ace header want to swap cars for 15 minutes for comparison? My car has a nameless setup and I am curious to see if other "butt dynos" can confirm what I have noticed.

[churchx]

Nameless headers IIRC also provided nice gains mid so i guess difference might be lesser then vs something like for example common UEL headers .. that was one of points they chosen during design phase going for mid optimization with also long-tube design instead of something like PTuning's that concentrated on top rpms for track use. That of course if my memory serves me right from reading that VEERY long thread of making/designing of nameless headers few years ago. Pitty Nameless still has that torque dip though, but otherwise they also have quality product.. just that in my eyes ace is better . No torque dip, among best welds i've seen, mandrel bent, low angle collector. Where are flaws, damnit?