ACE Header Questions...

[NAEightySix]

Hey all, I know this may or may not be an exhausted topic (no pun intended lol), but for those running any variation of the ACE header, can you *feel* a difference? Does the car feel faster to you? Just asking to see if the gains reflect the price point.


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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NAEightySix

Hey all, I know this may or may not be an exhausted topic (no pun intended lol), but for those running any variation of the ACE header, can you *feel* a difference? Does the car feel faster to you? Just asking to see if the gains reflect the price point.


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Any gains that you "feel" from a header alone are a result of the changed sound and placebo effect (it is a real thing). The tune that goes with a header (if dine right) will give you far more gains than the hardware itself.

[NAEightySix]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Any gains that you "feel" from a header alone are a result of the changed sound and placebo effect (it is a real thing). The tune that goes with a header (if dine right) will give you far more gains than the hardware itself.

Of course lol, I have no doubt that just installing the header on its own would make me subconsciously think the car feels faster... I should’ve clarified that in my post though; I meant a header AND a tune. From what I’ve seen, it significantly improves the torque curve in the midrange and holds a little better in the higher range before dropping off, which leads me to think that the acceleration would feel “better”... If I’m wrong, please tell me as I’m still learning the ropes


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[Tcoat]

Yep. A header and a tune will indeed give you a slightly better "feel".

[Code Monkey]

Ace and proper tune is a night and day difference from stock.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Any gains that you "feel" from a header alone are a result of the changed sound and placebo effect (it is a real thing).

Just for the sake of argument, not all headers behave this way...FT86Speedfactory's catted UEL header claims (yeah, I know...) a peak gain of 14bhp and 5ft/lbs without a tune. Assuming those are repeatable numbers, I'd say you'd feel 14 bhp.

http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/medi...86ctdhdr-8.jpg

That said, you'd still see more with a tune. And the ACE headers seem to be optimized for use WITH a tune, since they typically generate some of the highest numbers of any header/tune combo available.

[LeviDane]

It will certainly feel different and faster compared to stock. This is a combination of Placibo, Sound and actual performance. However ACE vs Other tune and Headers might be an additional 5-10hp? You will barely feel that and a real world difference on the average road is absolutely minimal. It will be 90% placebo. Is ACE worth the extra money over the others. Depends on your goals and spare money you have to throw away.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Just for the sake of argument, not all headers behave this way...FT86Speedfactory's catted UEL header claims (yeah, I know...) a peak gain of 14bhp and 5ft/lbs without a tune. Assuming those are repeatable numbers, I'd say you'd feel 14 bhp.

http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/medi...86ctdhdr-8.jpg

I am always skeptical of manufacture's claims especially when you get into single and very low digit numbers. Looking at the dyno the torque would certainly be able to be felt if the numbers are taken as accurate. That is one dyno graph that they decided they would show everybody and maybe (just maybe I don't KNOW) there are several hundred showing a 4HP increase. I personally can never assume that the numbers provided by a manufacturer (even the best of them) in marketing materials are repeatable. If there header can truly hit those numbers with no tune then why are the rest of the headers showing 5 and below? Now, of course I could be totally wrong on all of this but I will stick to my opinion on the matter.

Oh, and it isn't BHP it is WHP they are showing since it is done on a dyno. If it was actually BHP then the WHP number would be much lower. Like how the car is listed as being 200 or 205 BHP but in reality the WHP is not even close.

[Code Monkey]

Even if you get a slight bump in hp/tq without a tune, you need a tune to remap the throttle, lean out the afr closer to redline, etc. These things are more important to spirited driving than a horsepower increase.

[Teseo]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125559

Independent test

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh, and it isn't BHP it is WHP they are showing since it is done on a dyno. If it was actually BHP then the WHP number would be much lower. Like how the car is listed as being 200 or 205 BHP but in reality the WHP is not even close.

Yeah, I doubt they had it on an engine dyno...lol. I'm just in the habit of discussing BHP since there are far fewer variables affecting the numbers like tire pressure, gearing, transmission pumping losses, etc.

[NAEightySix]

I appreciate everybody’s responses! Of all the mods I’ve done, I have yet to actually touch anything in the engine bay...


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[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Teseo

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125559

Independent test

Man...look at how much earlier the torque starts with the ACE header, in the 2500 - 5500 rpm range...that's what makes the motor feel more lively.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Man...look at how much earlier the torque starts with the ACE header, in the 2500 - 5500 rpm range...that's what makes the motor feel more lively.

This is a point that needs to be reinforced all the time. So many like to look at HP numbers that they tend to overlook the low end torque that actually makes the car feel faster. HP is how fast you can go but torque (especially low end) is how quickly you get there. These cars make HP through revs and that means they sacrifice the low end torque to get it. Bring that low end up (and don't sweat the dip since it is mid range) and you will have a faster feeling car.