How to not execute a point-by at the track...

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by wparsons

The blame is definitely on the driver that didn't lift as a starting point, but as the driver taking the pass it's your responsibilty to ensure you get the pass done in the passing zone safely.

I agree as a general rule, it is the overtaking driver's responsibility to make sure the pass is done safely. Which is why I have a hang-up with this because intuitively there seems to be something very unsafe about getting halfway or more through a pass and suddenly backing out right before a braking zone. I can't shake the feeling that it would be dangerous/confusing for the driver being overtaken.

I know when I'm the driver giving a point-by, if there is no wave-off, my expectation is there will be a pass on the side I give the point-by. Especially if I see the other car pull alongside.

Maybe it's the right thing to do and I just need to trust the other driver will know I changed my mind in the middle of the pass, but definitely makes me uneasy thinking about it.

[mav1178]

all this can be avoided if the track host can set clear rules about passing zones and using best judgment.

Why are you (the driver) making these judgments or assumptions while you are on the track? If it's a regular open-track day, passing rules should be agreed and adhered to before you even drive onto the pit lane.

Frankly I see it as all parties being at fault here: the track host for poor passing rules, you for assuming the Miata will let you pass, and the Miata for assuming you can pass/are able to pass with a slow car.

-alex

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by wparsons

The blame is definitely on the driver that didn't lift as a starting point, but as the driver taking the pass it's your responsibilty to ensure you get the pass done in the passing zone safely.

It should be pretty clear well before a passing zone is over that you aren't going to make the pass.

If the car giving the point by does not facilitate the pass then things become unclear, in my post I state an example where I was getting a point by in a corner, clearly not a designated passing zone by an "instructor".

It's a good thing that things are cut and dry at your events but @DarkSunrise and I have encountered HPDE Groups where it's as clear as mud. Especially when the car offering the point by insists or is confused by the passing car backing out due to safety concerns and EXPECTS to be passed while on the brakes as they back out even further midcorner and cause further confusion and danger than if the pass had just been taken as if we were racing.

In hindsight we both should have backed off and tried again at the next appropriate opportunity or distanced ourselves from the difficult driver, in the heat of the moment obvious solutions are not obvious.

Edit: We are searching for advice on what we can control, ourselves, not critiques on other drivers or organizers.

[mav1178]

Rule of thumb:

If you trailered your car to the track, you can do whatever you want as long as you can pay for it.

If you drove your car to the track, you can do whatever you want as long as you can pay for it.

Is a pass under normal track, non-racing conditions that may cause an accident from a misunderstanding worth the expense? The answer is obvious.

And it doesn't matter if there is a point-by or not... I was given a point-by and not given a chance to pass. Could I have in the next corner or two? Sure.. but I like to enjoy my car, not be frustrated at others on the track.

-alex

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Edit: We are searching for advice on what we can control, ourselves, not critiques on other drivers or organizers.

What should have been done is to
1) back off and not be put in a black flag situation
2) make a point to let the organizer know what happened on the track
3) talk to the other driver to see if that person understood the rules or what had transpired
4) don't put yourself in future situations where there is little/no room for error

-alex

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by mav1178

all this can be avoided if the track host can set clear rules about passing zones and using best judgment.

Why are you (the driver) making these judgments or assumptions while you are on the track? If it's a regular open-track day, passing rules should be agreed and adhered to before you even drive onto the pit lane.

Frankly I see it as all parties being at fault here: the track host for poor passing rules, you for assuming the Miata will let you pass, and the Miata for assuming you can pass/are able to pass with a slow car.

-alex

BTW I should clarify it is taught in our classroom sessions that a driver giving a point-by should lift to facilitate the pass.

I've also had similar situations come up twice when I used to have an instructor, although the result of late point-bys rather than failures to lift. Typically they would instruct to take a little more speed off entry, stay on the inside line, then track out if clear. So it may just be a different passing rule for the local groups that I run with.

Definitely will make it a point to have it clarified during future classroom sessions though, as I think that's the best approach.