How is p0018 not covered under powertrain warranty....?

[zc06_kisstherain]

did you try resetting the ECU after header installed?

[Icecreamtruk]

Wait wait wait wait, you installed a header and didnt tune the car. Usually this means 1 CEL will pop, not the same one yes but the camshaft position depends on what the engine reads from O2 sensors to add or reduce timing. While not directly related, your header without a tune might have actually caused the issue. It might dissapear if you tune it, but most likely the damage is already done. They can deny you the warranty work based on the header btw, just saying (they as in eithe the dealer, or subaru, or both; it only takes one of them for it to not be done under warranty).

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

While not directly related, your header without a tune might have actually caused the issue.

Changing the header and getting a camshaft position sensor error is like changing the intake and getting a low oil light.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Changing the header and getting a camshaft position sensor error is like changing the intake and getting a low oil light.

So are you saying the ECU doesnt try to adjust the camshaft position while reading lean or rich mixtures from the O2 sensor to compensate? I though that was how the ECU worked, reads things entering the engine (air, fuel), reads things coming out of the engine (unburn fuel, unburn O2), adjusts amount of fuel, ignition timing and camshaft position to reach ideal conditions, right?

Im all for learning some more if you wish to go into some detail please

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

So are you saying the ECU doesnt try to adjust the camshaft position while reading lean or rich mixtures from the O2 sensor to compensate? I though that was how the ECU worked, reads things entering the engine (air, fuel), reads things coming out of the engine (unburn fuel, unburn O2), adjusts amount of fuel, ignition timing and camshaft position to reach ideal conditions, right?

Im all for learning some more if you wish to go into some detail please

Certainly.

The ECU would not throw P0018 if it was unable to compensate timing, air, and fuel like you postulate, that would be one of the more common CEL's associated with removing a catalytic converter and creating unexpected O2 sensor readings (I don't know them off the top of my head).

P0018 relates to the camshaft itself not being able to do as the ECU tells it to. Whether it's a electrical issue or a mechanical one, it's entirely to do with the ECU saying 'camshaft do this' and the camshaft doesn't do that and thus it throws an error.

Here is the Subaru service bulletin about diagnosing and fixing the problem, it involves checking the oil control valves and potentially replacing the camshaft gears and/or ECU.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=13


Purely speculation time: This appears after people modify intake/exhaust/other because they put their shiny new parts on and go out and drive them hard to get their monies worth and feel the difference that their blood sweat and tears made.

This works the engine harder than it may have been working previously, asking more of the variable valve timing than it usually sees causing a latent deficiency to appear. I believe if the part had not been installed and the owner had gone out and driven it the exact same way leading up to the CEL the error still would have occurred.

I saw my car throw P0011 error 2 years ago at a track day, cleared it and it never came back despite a track day and many autox's since.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Certainly.

The ECU would not throw P0018 if it was unable to compensate timing, air, and fuel like you postulate, that would be one of the more common CEL's associated with removing a catalytic converter and creating unexpected O2 sensor readings (I don't know them off the top of my head).

P0018 relates to the camshaft itself not being able to do as the ECU tells it to. Whether it's a electrical issue or a mechanical one, it's entirely to do with the ECU saying 'camshaft do this' and the camshaft doesn't do that and thus it throws an error.

Here is the Subaru service bulletin about diagnosing and fixing the problem, it involves checking the oil control valves and potentially replacing the camshaft gears and/or ECU.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=13


Purely speculation time: This appears after people modify intake/exhaust/other because they put their shiny new parts on and go out and drive them hard to get their monies worth and feel the difference that their blood sweat and tears made.

This works the engine harder than it may have been working previously, asking more of the variable valve timing than it usually sees causing a latent deficiency to appear. I believe if the part had not been installed and the owner had gone out and driven it the exact same way leading up to the CEL the error still would have occurred.

I saw my car throw P0011 error 2 years ago at a track day, cleared it and it never came back despite a track day and many autox's since.

Awesome, thanks for the clarification, it makes much more sense now. Yeah Im guilty myself of driving harder after installing parts.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

They can deny you the warranty work based on the header btw, just saying (they as in eithe the dealer, or subaru, or both; it only takes one of them for it to not be done under warranty).

Electrical components is not covered under the powertrain warranty.

[stevesnj]

I'd stop guessing and just call Subaru and go through the issue with them.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Electrical components is not covered under the powertrain warranty.

Hypothetically speaking, what if it were the camshaft failure in the picture I link below. Would you consider that part of the powertrain warranty under "Engine block and all internal parts"?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=2970

Given that the standard procedure for diagnoses contains the potential to replace the camshaft gear, I would expect a competent dealership to say 'we can look into it, but we will charge you if it's not covered'.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Hypothetically speaking, what if it were the camshaft failure in the picture I link below. Would you consider that part of the powertrain warranty under "Engine block and all internal parts"?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=2970

Given that the standard procedure for diagnoses contains the potential to replace the camshaft gear, I would expect a competent dealership to say 'we can look into it, but we will charge you if it's not covered'.

A competent dealer, yes, but this is also assuming the standard fix for this problem is the same and is a mechanical (and not electrical/sensor) issue.

If mechanical then it should be powertrain.

[infinitewhiskey]

Originally Posted by giorgi0424

Was yours a catless header or chatted and did you already have a tune on it when that happened

I haven't tuned mine yet and it's catless. I also haven't even gotten he p0042 code yet for cat efficiency

Catless OFH V1 with OFT stage 2 tune

[DirtySouth86]

Just had a 2013 Scion FRS w/ automatic trans in our shop with p0016 problem. We were successful repairing that vehicle and now the problem is solved. The "fix" required the following: replacement of the associated oil control valve, replacement of the associated timing gear, replacement and programming/initialization of the ECM. We did the mechanical repairs 1st, but the ECM had erroneous values burned in. Reprogramming the ECM did not work. After replacing & programming the ECM, the problem was corrected.

[Brayden_23]

I would just suggest getting under the hood again and making sure all plugs are well fastened and no wires are being pulled too tight. I had a P0010 pop up after installing mine, and realized I had left a plug undone from the install. Hopefully your issue turns out to be something similar

[BRZnut]

Originally Posted by DirtySouth86

Just had a 2013 Scion FRS w/ automatic trans in our shop with p0016 problem. We were successful repairing that vehicle and now the problem is solved. The "fix" required the following: replacement of the associated oil control valve, replacement of the associated timing gear, replacement and programming/initialization of the ECM. We did the mechanical repairs 1st, but the ECM had erroneous values burned in. Reprogramming the ECM did not work. After replacing & programming the ECM, the problem was corrected.

Have you ever seen issues like this with non-Subaru engines?