Edelbrock E-force Owner's thread and FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions)

[Bunsin]

Originally Posted by Peaches86

Really? Yeah I have heard that there usually isn't any fluids or blow by in the CCV side that you are referring to that goes into the air box. I thinking of not installing that catch can and just doing the PVC catch can on the passenger side, because that seems to be where I am getting all the blow by/ oil from thats mucking up the mass air flow sensor. Plus attaching the CCV catch can after the supercharger is already on looks really tough so I dont think it'll be worth it.

So you have two 86's? One boosted and one not?

Actually I didn’t think the install was that bad but the driver side CCV is not needed. I reused one of the OEM hoses on the PVC and coupled it to the supplied hose with a barb connector. Figment was good.

Yes, I bought a new FRS in 2013 (and went full out on speed stuff a couple years ago). Last year bought a used 2014 BRZ for the kids when the rebuilt RX-8 motor finally gave out again (car I bought new in 2004 and rebuilt in 2010 but was so rusty it was nearly worthless). I keep the BRZ engine stock so the kids know better than to street race because they will loose to most any mustang in a straight line . However, it drives fantastic and autocross better than many built cars (I put M pilot sport tires on it)... actually I think stock it makes a perfect first car. My oldest bought his own new 2015 BRZ when he graduated college, so our family really has three of these things.

The only thing left to do on my FRS is build the motor and drop down on the pulley to get to over 400 HP at the wheels. Not sure the tranny will hold it though and I spin the tires constantly at 330 HP anyway so I may wait and do it only if the engine blows.

[CallmeDave]

What other stuff should I buy before I do the install. I have the no spill funnel, what size hose claps should I buy. Any other thoughts to do this install correctly?

[Chris3007]

Originally Posted by CallmeDave

What other stuff should I buy before I do the install. I have the no spill funnel, what size hose claps should I buy. Any other thoughts to do this install correctly?

You should grab some extra 5/8" and 3/4" hose clamps. A hose clamp tool is especially helpful, there are some difficult to reach locations. You will also need the special fuel line disconnect tool, #42099AE000.

[CallmeDave]

Originally Posted by Chris3007

You should grab some extra 5/8" and 3/4" hose clamps. A hose clamp tool is especially helpful, there are some difficult to reach locations. You will also need the special fuel line disconnect tool, #42099AE000.

Thanks for replying and the tips. bonus for the part number

Thanks again.

[toast]

You don't need that tool. Cut a zip tie in half and slide it into the fuel connector at the 2 notches. Pops right off.

[toast]

I would also get the four fuel injector o-rings, 2 new manifold gaskets and some assembly lube. Coat the manifold gaskets in the lube, it will keep them in place and let you slide the SC assembly around on the heads without the gasket folding over.

[BertoFT]

Originally Posted by toast

I would also get the four fuel injector o-rings, 2 new manifold gaskets and some assembly lube. Coat the manifold gaskets in the lube, it will keep them in place and let you slide the SC assembly around on the heads without the gasket folding over.

Which assembly lube do you use?

Sent from my SM-G9600 using Tapatalk

[toast]

Permatex Ultra Slick. Really sticky, stays in place.

[devtec]

Hi all,

Don't post much but follow the thread and thought I'd give you all an update on my efforts to address the hesitation issues with my Edelbrock install.

My experience with the S/C began with the rotors seizing on the way back home from the authorized installer here in the Bay Area. Unit was found to be defective, and Edelbrock sent out a new unit which has worked. I have been plagued though by constant hesitation/stuttering problems on throttle tip in (like so many others). The hesitation/stuttering has ranged in severity from severe bucking in first gear, to subtle inconsistency in behavior of throttle tip in, to slightly rough idle, to random hanging of RPMs with clutch in. Never had any codes.

I'm happy to say that I think the issues are finally fixed, and the engine now runs more smoothly than stock. S/C went in at about 9k miles on the car, and I now have 62k. So it's definitely been a matter of persistence. There are many times I thought I had the hesitation licked, but it kept coming back. Hopefully it is now fixed for good.

Below is all I've been through to get to this point:


Vacuum leaks/Seals:
Many vacuum leak checks with a smoke machine
MAF O-ring found to have leak (pinched on original install), replaced with CSG O-ring
Edelbrock bypass actuator found to have leak and replaced
Replaced vacuum line going to bypass valve with smaller silicone tubing
Intake manifold gaskets replaced at the time bypass actuator was swapped

Hardware/Sensors:
Installed revised Edelbrock MAF air flow straightener
Cleaned MAF sensor and wiring harness contacts repeatedly
Replaced MAF sensor wiring harness housing (clip broken by installer)
Replaced MAP sensor with new Bosch part
Replaced throttle body in case it was the TPS sensor
Cleaned and re-oiled Edelbrock air filter
Installed radium dual catch cans with a check valve on the PCV side
Fixed exhaust leaks around the resonator joints on my Milltek exhaust

Tuning/Electrical:
Replaced alternator with high output unit
Installed Cusco ground kit
Edelbrock tunes (garbage)
Delicious tunes (now up to v25)
Delicious D-box

From the above list, the following interventions definitely led to a noticeable initial improvement in smoothness: replacing MAF O-ring, cleaning MAF, replacing bypass valve, installing grounding kit, upgrading alternator, refining Delicious tunes, D-box, and installing catch cans. Of these, the biggest deltas came from replacing the MAF O-ring, adding the catch cans (probably from addressing a subtle vacuum leak, although could be from effective increase in octane), and the Delicious tunes. All the other interventions listed made essentially no difference.

Any success has been transient, as the hesitation always crept back in, albeit subtle. All of the above brought me to about 50k, and I was resigned to accepting the subpar behavior.

In the last 10k miles though, on top of the hesitation, the idle started bouncing, running rough, and even stalling on cold starts. At first I thought the idle issue was random; it would sometimes go away after an ECU reset, or just go away on its own. But then it started persisting even after ECU resets. I found some exhaust leaks which I thought were responsible, and had them rewelded at a shop. This helped intially, but idle issues returned. After about 3 cycles, a pattern of a bouncing idle/stalling happening after long drives (several hours/hundred miles) finally emerged. Something was probably being incorporated into LTFT after the long drive.

A look at the logs showed a STFT of -29%, and MAF sensor readings of over 2 volts.

So I was forced to revisit all this since the car was now unreliable, and something was clearly out of whack. I was really pulling my hair out at this point. Bill suggested it may be a boost leak (loss of post MAF metered air leading to a rich condition), but I could find no S/C leaks.

Since the MAF was acting crazy, I formed a theory that perhaps I overoiled the Edelbrock air filter and fouled the sensor, since I cleaned the air filter at about 50k miles and the erratic idle started shortly after that.

So a few weeks ago I cleaned the MAF again. This led to a temporary reprieve from the hesitation and normal range MAF voltage of about 1.2V. So perhaps the MAF did need a clean. But the bouncing rough idle came back. Inspecting the MAF sensor, I noticed that the O-ring was once again damaged in several places even though I had replaced it with a CSG ring at 33k miles (ID 22mm, OD 26mm, 2mm section diameter, buna nitrile).

The MAF has always been really difficult to place in the Edelbrock intake housing. I was sure that with grease and gentle tapping in of the sensor with a wood block on top of it, I had gotten it to seat properly. Which I had. But inspection of the CSG O-ring at 60k revealed that despite these efforts, there was once again damage to the O-ring even when seated properly (see pics).





Could it once again be an MAF vacuum leak? I think that the Edelbrock intake housing tolerance is different from OEM; it is too small. Moreoever, the buna nitrile is pretty stiff, and I think wore out prematurely because of being overly compressed within the smaller housing diameter.

So I went in search of a more elastic/forgiving O ring that would fit better in the Edelbrock intake housing, and decided to go with silicone since it also has a high temp tolerance (not high anyway in the intake). The disadvantage of silicone is that it has poorer wear characteristics than buna nitrile. But this is not a seal exposed to repeated cycles, so thought I'd try it anyway. Ended up ordering a silicone O-ring from eBay, also at ID 22mm and probably about a 1.9mm section diameter. It definitely felt softer than the OEM/CSG) ring, and appears to have a slightly smaller section diameter.




Greased up the ring nicely, and on install the MAF sensor popped right in with gentle effort. On moving around the sensor it was nice and squishy within the housing, and seemed to have a nice seal.

On startup without ECU reset, the idle was solid. After ECU reset the idle was solid.

Drove a bit. And bouncing idle returned.

Back to researching on the web. Desperate at this point. Symptoms seemed possibly consistent with a bad PCV valve. Doubted this is the culprit. But may as well try since it's cheap. Picked up a new one at the dealer for $25. Old PCV came out easily with a U-joint even though under the supercharger assembly. Old PCV maybe passed the rattle test, but not with a nicely clangy sound. Little bit of oil on inlet so a bit dirty. New one went in easily (teflon tape around threads). Whole thing takes about 3 minutes.


Result? Car now runs really nicely: Idle is solid. Throttle tip in is very, very smooth. Power increased. Curve much more linear. Exhaust quieter. Fuel economy increased. No more hanging RPMs with clutch in. A pleasure to drive.

So, I know enough at this point to not get my hopes up, and that it will take a few thousand miles to know for sure if this is a real fix. Will update here with longer term results. But I recount my experience so you can see what what worked for me and what didn't, and what you may want to try.


TL;DR:

I've thrown a lot of money and effort at trying to solve my Edelbrock hesitation problem. Multiple checks by shops were never able to pinpoint a problem. Did not have CELs. In retrospect it may be a bunch of small issues in aggregate leading to the overall behavior. I think with Edelbrock MAF housing being too small, the O-ring issue is real and likely the case with many cars out there. The fix with a softer silicone ring makes sense, and replacing that costs just a few dollars, as does the PCV. Could it be as simple as these small, cheap fixes? Maybe. I would recommend replacing both of these before digging deeper. Give it a shot and report back. And obviously keep refining your tune.

[86fun]

Dev, thanks for the info, wow, bummer, I thought the custom Delicious tune was it for you. I've had basically the identical issues with my '13 since I installed it. Mine isn't even consistent, sometimes it acts fine, other times it's a complete PITA. Recently I was on a trip for a couple weeks and when I got back and ran the car again the idle was so bad it was stalling and not starting and almost stranded me. The next week I started it up, having done absolutely nothing, and it now runs 100% again. WTF. One doubt I still have is if that strange cam angle sensor issue the early cars had, might still effect cars outside the VIN range (mine is outside of it, barely) but just in a less obvious way. I think it's the randomness of the issue that makes it so hard to troubleshoot. You can't tell when you make a change if that actually had an effect. Look how many times both you and I have been fooled.


I still question the cam angle sensor/tolerance because the only thing that ever helped my issue was when Edelbrock played with the CARB tune for me and moved my cam timing back to stock, then I was at least able to drive the car, albeit with the hesitation issue still being there but not as bad. The difference was pretty huge, so that seems like a flag that the cams/related components are possibly involved. At this point I've pretty much given up and don't think anyone will ever figure it out.


Does anyone know if it's possible to log the cam angle sensor outputs? If so, i'd consider logging and seeing if they get erratic when the car is acting up.

[Mr_Eyo]

Originally Posted by devtec

Hi all,

Don't post much but follow the thread and thought I'd give you all an update on my efforts to address the hesitation issues with my Edelbrock install.

My experience with the S/C began with the rotors seizing on the way back home from the authorized installer here in the Bay Area. Unit was found to be defective, and Edelbrock sent out a new unit which has worked. I have been plagued though by constant hesitation/stuttering problems on throttle tip in (like so many others). The hesitation/stuttering has ranged in severity from severe bucking in first gear, to subtle inconsistency in behavior of throttle tip in, to slightly rough idle, to random hanging of RPMs with clutch in. Never had any codes.

I'm happy to say that I think the issues are finally fixed, and the engine now runs more smoothly than stock. S/C went in at about 9k miles on the car, and I now have 62k. So it's definitely been a matter of persistence. There are many times I thought I had the hesitation licked, but it kept coming back. Hopefully it is now fixed for good.

Below is all I've been through to get to this point:


Vacuum leaks/Seals:
Many vacuum leak checks with a smoke machine
MAF O-ring found to have leak (pinched on original install), replaced with CSG O-ring
Edelbrock bypass actuator found to have leak and replaced
Replaced vacuum line going to bypass valve with smaller silicone tubing
Intake manifold gaskets replaced at the time bypass actuator was swapped

Hardware/Sensors:
Installed revised Edelbrock MAF air flow straightener
Cleaned MAF sensor and wiring harness contacts repeatedly
Replaced MAF sensor wiring harness housing (clip broken by installer)
Replaced MAP sensor with new Bosch part
Replaced throttle body in case it was the TPS sensor
Cleaned and re-oiled Edelbrock air filter
Installed radium dual catch cans with a check valve on the PCV side
Fixed exhaust leaks around the resonator joints on my Milltek exhaust

Tuning/Electrical:
Replaced alternator with high output unit
Installed Cusco ground kit
Edelbrock tunes (garbage)
Delicious tunes (now up to v25)
Delicious D-box

From the above list, the following interventions definitely led to a noticeable initial improvement in smoothness: replacing MAF O-ring, cleaning MAF, replacing bypass valve, installing grounding kit, upgrading alternator, refining Delicious tunes, D-box, and installing catch cans. Of these, the biggest deltas came from replacing the MAF O-ring, adding the catch cans (probably from addressing a subtle vacuum leak, although could be from effective increase in octane), and the Delicious tunes. All the other interventions listed made essentially no difference.

Any success has been transient, as the hesitation always crept back in, albeit subtle. All of the above brought me to about 50k, and I was resigned to accepting the subpar behavior.

In the last 10k miles though, on top of the hesitation, the idle started bouncing, running rough, and even stalling on cold starts. At first I thought the idle issue was random; it would sometimes go away after an ECU reset, or just go away on its own. But then it started persisting even after ECU resets. I found some exhaust leaks which I thought were responsible, and had them rewelded at a shop. This helped intially, but idle issues returned. After about 3 cycles, a pattern of a bouncing idle/stalling happening after long drives (several hours/hundred miles) finally emerged. Something was probably being incorporated into LTFT after the long drive.

A look at the logs showed a STFT of -29%, and MAF sensor readings of over 2 volts.

So I was forced to revisit all this since the car was now unreliable, and something was clearly out of whack. I was really pulling my hair out at this point. Bill suggested it may be a boost leak (loss of post MAF metered air leading to a rich condition), but I could find no S/C leaks.

Since the MAF was acting crazy, I formed a theory that perhaps I overoiled the Edelbrock air filter and fouled the sensor, since I cleaned the air filter at about 50k miles and the erratic idle started shortly after that.

So a few weeks ago I cleaned the MAF again. This led to a temporary reprieve from the hesitation and normal range MAF voltage of about 1.2V. So perhaps the MAF did need a clean. But the bouncing rough idle came back. Inspecting the MAF sensor, I noticed that the O-ring was once again damaged in several places even though I had replaced it with a CSG ring at 33k miles (ID 22mm, OD 26mm, 2mm section diameter, buna nitrile).

The MAF has always been really difficult to place in the Edelbrock intake housing. I was sure that with grease and gentle tapping in of the sensor with a wood block on top of it, I had gotten it to seat properly. Which I had. But inspection of the CSG O-ring at 60k revealed that despite these efforts, there was once again damage to the O-ring even when seated properly (see pics).





Could it once again be an MAF vacuum leak? I think that the Edelbrock intake housing tolerance is different from OEM; it is too small. Moreoever, the buna nitrile is pretty stiff, and I think wore out prematurely because of being overly compressed within the smaller housing diameter.

So I went in search of a more elastic/forgiving O ring that would fit better in the Edelbrock intake housing, and decided to go with silicone since it also has a high temp tolerance (not high anyway in the intake). The disadvantage of silicone is that it has poorer wear characteristics than buna nitrile. But this is not a seal exposed to repeated cycles, so thought I'd try it anyway. Ended up ordering a silicone O-ring from eBay, also at ID 22mm and probably about a 1.9mm section diameter. It definitely felt softer than the OEM/CSG) ring, and appears to have a slightly smaller section diameter.




Greased up the ring nicely, and on install the MAF sensor popped right in with gentle effort. On moving around the sensor it was nice and squishy within the housing, and seemed to have a nice seal.

On startup without ECU reset, the idle was solid. After ECU reset the idle was solid.

Drove a bit. And bouncing idle returned.

Back to researching on the web. Desperate at this point. Symptoms seemed possibly consistent with a bad PCV valve. Doubted this is the culprit. But may as well try since it's cheap. Picked up a new one at the dealer for $25. Old PCV came out easily with a U-joint even though under the supercharger assembly. Old PCV maybe passed the rattle test, but not with a nicely clangy sound. Little bit of oil on inlet so a bit dirty. New one went in easily (teflon tape around threads). Whole thing takes about 3 minutes.


Result? Car now runs really nicely: Idle is solid. Throttle tip in is very, very smooth. Power increased. Curve much more linear. Exhaust quieter. Fuel economy increased. No more hanging RPMs with clutch in. A pleasure to drive.

So, I know enough at this point to not get my hopes up, and that it will take a few thousand miles to know for sure if this is a real fix. Will update here with longer term results. But I recount my experience so you can see what what worked for me and what didn't, and what you may want to try.


TL;DR:

I've thrown a lot of money and effort at trying to solve my Edelbrock hesitation problem. Multiple checks by shops were never able to pinpoint a problem. Did not have CELs. In retrospect it may be a bunch of small issues in aggregate leading to the overall behavior. I think with Edelbrock MAF housing being too small, the O-ring issue is real and likely the case with many cars out there. The fix with a softer silicone ring makes sense, and replacing that costs just a few dollars, as does the PCV. Could it be as simple as these small, cheap fixes? Maybe. I would recommend replacing both of these before digging deeper. Give it a shot and report back. And obviously keep refining your tune.

In all of this, I didn't see anything about the O2 sensor. What lead you to believe it is good? Just curious b/c I am having troubles too.

For the PCV check valve addition, where did you place the check valve? Between the PCV and the catch can input, or between the catch can output and the supercharger input? Also, the PCV is also supposed to be a check valve, so any idea if it opens at a lower or higher pressure than your check valve? I was thinking about turning the PCV on the block into a breather and just relying on a check valve between the catch can output and the supercharger input.

[Proseph]

I hear something coming from the engine bay that sounds like a continuous woosh sounds that releasing air when I'm gently accelerating. Was wondering if anyone had any idea what this could be? I was thinking maybe the bypass actuator valve has gone bad, but have no idea. Called Edelbrock and no techs are in today.

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Dang reading about all these problems makes me not want the kit. If you guys could do it all over again, would you still go for this kit or pick another? Or do they all suffer from some number of problems?

[Proseph]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

Dang reading about all these problems makes me not want the kit. If you guys could do it all over again, would you still go for this kit or pick another? Or do they all suffer from some number of problems?

Hey, this kit is super reliable from my research and experience owning it for over 2 years. Only common problem I've heard of is the bypass actuator valve and even then it's not that big of a deal. This is the only supercharger I would get, turbo otherwise.