Tuning and Liability

[350matt]

Chaps

a nasty topic this one but something that occurs to me is we're currently in the situation where there are a number of tuners out there who are modifying car's maps etc .

now I'm sure all are doing their best to create tunes that are safe and don't create engine damage - but it only takes a single typo in a map to create issues

So whats the situation if say you have your car tuned and it then goes bang and in the process someone gets hurt ? Ie engine seizes up mid corner and puts you in the ditch.......

who is liable in this case?

or are all the tunes sold for non- highway use only?

[endrswrd]

That liability is on the driver. It always will be this way because you accept this liability anytime you drive on public roads.

Also,

General liability with tuning in general is on the owner. You are knowingly modifying the state of your car for whatever reason. One of those risks is stuff breaks. While things could be the tuners fault, he isnt liable. At least, good luck convincing a judge its his fault when you paid him to modify the car for whatever reason. (most of the time its for more power, which immediately will tip off the judge).

Now if you could somehow prove that the fault occured due to negligence and not some other factor (bad engine build, bad luck, bad gas, other component failure), then you might be able to make a case in court. But 99% of the time, the full liability and responsibility falls onto the owner. This is the reason bad tuners can stay in business because youll spend more money taking them to court then you would potentially seek in damages.

The tuner didnt force you to mod your vehicle and tune it for more power....

[Dynotronics1]

depends; does your tuner have product liabilty? Pro tuners do, or at least those than have been in the business for a few years

[endrswrd]

There really is no need for liability here. What is needed is insurance. Putting a car on a dyno / road tuning has liability issues when the tuner / shop is driving it. Alot like what happened to visconti and the charred BRZ. In that case I absolutely believe the shop and V is liable. If that guy took them to court he would probably win and their insurance would pay out for it, because that is why you have insurance.

But if a shop blows up your car on the dyno, its their reputation that will take a hit. 9/10 if they built the engine they will cover it and eat the cost, but if you just bring in some random "built" car to a tuning shop and something happens, depending on the inspection rules of that tuner, it usually isnt their fault / problem unless negligence is involved.

That's why sometimes shops charge you for a pre dyno inspection / want compression / leak down numbers before tuning big built setups that didnt originate in their shop. But even then it doesnt catch all problems or potential blow ups. When are people going to learn that pushing a 2->2.5L 4 cyl to make 4-500+ whp has its pitfalls.

There is a reason the saying there is no replacement for displacement is around. Its easier and safer to make power via displacement. Period. 3L I6 vs 2l I4/H4. Everybody would take the sixxer, especially if they are both FI.

[whaap]

The key word is 'negligence'. The responsibility would be on you to prove that the negligence of the tuner was indeed the cause of the accident. Need I say that would be a huge challenge.

[DarkSunrise]

Typically any suit brought by the owner would be for negligence. So you would need to show the shop had been negligent in their duties (typo in map, strapped car to dyno improperly, etc.)

If they were doing their job properly, didn't make any mistakes, and the engine just let go in their pursuit for more power (as requested by owner), I don't think the shop would be liable.

Edit: looks like whaap beat me to the punch.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Typically any suit brought by the owner would be for negligence. So you would need to show the shop had been negligent in their duties (typo in map, strapped car to dyno improperly, etc.)

If they were doing their job properly, didn't make any mistakes, and the engine just let go in their pursuit for more power (as requested by owner), I don't think the shop would be liable.

Edit: looks like whaap beat me to the punch.

Agreed.. You choose and and pay the vendor of your choice. Whether he does his job right or not, or something just let's go. It's still the owners problem as he initiated everything in the first place. Unless you have specific proof as to what caused the failure or neglect on the vendors part, it's all your problem in the end. Even with proof of the problem being in the vendors court, you still have to deal with that aspect of getting it resolved so it's all up to the owner.. That's why a good reputable shop that costs a bit more is worth the money if they stand by their work.

[s2d4]

Quoting myself.

Originally Posted by s2d4

Probably not a bad idea for anyone doing modding to watch this, people can get a good idea of what can go wrong, what the tuners are expected to be unreasonably, mates/forum members telling bs they haven't the faintest clue on etc...
http://www.thatvideomagazine.com/new...nny-ten-racing

/Thread

[endrswrd]

Awesome post! Love Vinny! Ive been a huge fan of Vinny Ten since I saw him boosting the 350z when it came out, hes an awesome tuner! One of the few guys Id say I look up to in this business.

[jeebus]

Any time you modify your car you are taking a risk. Different springs, shocks, wheels, engine tuning, etc. In my personal opinion, that risk is on you if you decide to take those chances. There are exceptions...like say a bad batch of tires causes a blowout that rolls the car, and the tire company is investigated and is found at fault. Tires though, have to meet DOT standards. But pretty much everything else is "off road use only" as far as I'm concerned. I choose to take the risk and drive on the street with these parts, that's on me.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by endrswrd

Awesome post! Love Vinny! Ive been a huge fan of Vinny Ten since I saw him boosting the 350z when it came out, hes an awesome tuner! One of the few guys Id say I look up to in this business.

His name isn't really Vinny Ten, what the Ten stands for at the time was pretty significant.

[endrswrd]

Its how I have always known him, and he says in the video thats his real name wasnt sure if serious or not lol.

I remember seeing old videos of him in all sorts of cars, and just kinda started following his work is all. I hadnt seen anything from him in a long time though. Forgotten all about him until you posted this!

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by endrswrd

Its how I have always known him, and he says in the video thats his real name wasnt sure if serious or not lol.

I remember seeing old videos of him in all sorts of cars, and just kinda started following his work is all. I hadnt seen anything from him in a long time though. Forgotten all about him until you posted this!

Yeah, he was the first to run in the tens consistently with the supra. That is where it came from. Obviously a really long time ago...

[Sellout]

People have been saying that for a long time, but those of us that remember the first time he ran in the 10s can also remember that his name was Vinny Ten when he was only running 11s. And 12s.