Report: Toyota 86 / FR-S Sedan still coming (with 100mm longer wheelbase)

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by killerkid08

Oh. Hybrid, yikes. Meant real power.

F1-inspired KERS-style technology.
Good enough for F1, good enough for me.

[killerkid08]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

F1-inspired KERS-style technology.
Good enough for F1, good enough for me.

My paddle shifters are f1 inspired as well but they still link to a rather standard 6 speed auto. My paddles again are f1 inspires but dont shift up and down from either side like another f1 inspired car (mp4-12c) It goes on and on with things that are inspired.

They are knock-offs, and on the not F1, $$$$$$$ budget, will probably be decent at best and a added weight vs performance booster.

Id rather see toyota be a major implementer of carbon fiber in a non-super car extensive production vehicle. Weight savings, chassis rigidity, and safety all rolled into one.

As for the guys who think adding doors to the fr-s makes since, and opens it up to possibilities, what could you be thinking of. When they redesign the body, you wont be carrying over any additional panels or moulding to your coupe or vice versa, you wont be strapping the supposed kers system into your ol 86 either, but what you will have is a watered down image of what the fr-s/brz moniker has created. No longer will it be the twins but the twins and their fat younger brothers. i understand some might disagree when people say well look at the civic, yes look at it, with its different body styles and trim packages, because you didnt know what it was by hearing the name civic. You know what a miata is when you hear its name. You know what a cayman is when you hear its name. The list of cars that have become icons with instant mental recognition are endless, and usually have remained true to their design image and styles since their inception. I honestly hope the fr-s never gets a another set of doors, hatch back styling wouldn't be too bad, but anything else that would change its overall shape would just be foolish. The convertible was one thing, the denying of turbo/supercharged power was another, but making it a sedan, just plain dumb.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Cesium Rainbow

I'm a little confused what power Subaru has over Toyota to tell Toyota what Toyotas it can sell. Does it have to do with Subaru's production responsibility? Just a Japanese gentleman's agreement that they both have to agree on everything 86 related?

.

Let me guess Finance guy? Look, in the automotive industry manufacturing is everything from the engineering till the car comes off the assembly line. All Toyota did was appoint an enthusiastic young engineer to come up with a concept, styling and then hold hundreds of meetings to have Subaru build a small GT car that they (Toyota) couldn't.

Keeping an assembly plant at capacity is the most critical portion of a automakers finacials. Sales are strong now but not enough (100k+per year) to invest in a dedicated assembly plant with a 4 year payback.

Subaru holds all the cards with this car, they don't even need Toyota's stupid D4-S with their all Subaru FA20T. The main reason they agreed to this joint venture was to learn how to DI their boxers

Toyota is just holding this car back at this point. Let them have their Scion sedan/Hybrid bs and give Subaru exclusive rights to this car.

It will be interesting if Toyota/Scion put puts around and does nothing with this car while Subaru drops an FA20T in it for no price increase.

[Cesium Rainbow]

Originally Posted by regal

Let me guess Finance guy? Look, in the automotive industry manufacturing is everything from the engineering till the car comes off the assembly line. All Toyota did was appoint an enthusiastic young engineer to come up with a concept, styling and then hold hundreds of meetings to have Subaru build a small GT car that they (Toyota) couldn't.

Keeping an assembly plant at capacity is the most critical portion of a automakers finacials. Sales are strong now but not enough (100k+per year) to invest in a dedicated assembly plant with a 4 year payback.

Subaru holds all the cards with this car, they don't even need Toyota's stupid D4-S with their all Subaru FA20T. The main reason they agreed to this joint venture was to learn how to DI their boxers

Toyota is just holding this car back at this point. Let them have their Scion sedan/Hybrid bs and give Subaru exclusive rights to this car.

It will be interesting if Toyota/Scion put puts around and does nothing with this car while Subaru drops an FA20T in it for no price increase.

Gotcha so Subaru's been at full capacity building 86's which is why there's such an insane lead time in some markets internationally, and every 86 Toyota sells is a BRZ that Subaru can't sell. So the only way Subaru could build another model variant without increasing overall capacity is to either produce less 86 coupes and do whatever retooling is necessary to build sedans, or allocate less 86's to Toyota to sell. Sound right?
Seems like Toyota could front some cash if they really wanted Subaru to add a model line though. And then Subaru basically gets more production capacity for free. And we get a new way to own an 86. Some won't like it (obviously, from reading this thread), but some people will.

There is no rationale that justifies limiting enthusiast's choices in enthusiast cars. Period. More choices are always better in every conceivable situation. That's like people in this country that whine about having too many option choices in buying a new car cuz "It makes my head hurt to figure it out waaaaaah" and want every god damn thing including toasters AND pop-tarts to be standard equipment so the starting price of every car gets jacked up to retarded levels while everybody gets AT LEAST one piece of standard equipment that they don't want or need.

If it's SO IMPORTANT for a car to retain purity in its original design, get 10 non-car people together in front of an AE86 and ZN6 with the badges covered and see how many of them guess that they're both Toyotas.

ADD @regal, just rlzd for the first time in your sig that the model name xD is a smilie cracking up at its own name. Embarrassing. loljk

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by killerkid08

My paddle shifters are f1 inspired as well but they still link to a rather standard 6 speed auto. My paddles again are f1 inspires but dont shift up and down from either side like another f1 inspired car (mp4-12c) It goes on and on with things that are inspired.

They are knock-offs, and on the not F1, $$$$$$$ budget, will probably be decent at best and a added weight vs performance booster.

Id rather see toyota be a major implementer of carbon fiber in a non-super car extensive production vehicle. Weight savings, chassis rigidity, and safety all rolled into one.

As for the guys who think adding doors to the fr-s makes since, and opens it up to possibilities, what could you be thinking of. When they redesign the body, you wont be carrying over any additional panels or moulding to your coupe or vice versa, you wont be strapping the supposed kers system into your ol 86 either, but what you will have is a watered down image of what the fr-s/brz moniker has created. No longer will it be the twins but the twins and their fat younger brothers. i understand some might disagree when people say well look at the civic, yes look at it, with its different body styles and trim packages, because you didnt know what it was by hearing the name civic. You know what a miata is when you hear its name. You know what a cayman is when you hear its name. The list of cars that have become icons with instant mental recognition are endless, and usually have remained true to their design image and styles since their inception. I honestly hope the fr-s never gets a another set of doors, hatch back styling wouldn't be too bad, but anything else that would change its overall shape would just be foolish. The convertible was one thing, the denying of turbo/supercharged power was another, but making it a sedan, just plain dumb.

Carbon fiber is a terrible idea for those of modest means (which is who this car is marketed to in the first place). A mild collision will mean very expensive repairs since Carbon Fibre isn't as resilient as old fashioned aluminum and steel (dents can be corrected; CF would shatter). How much do you figure it will cost to insure a CF car (mass-produced or not)?

And KERS, unlike paddle-shifters (largely a marketing gimmick in most current guises), would be something with true performance/efficiency value, so your comparison doesn't hold.

As for image, I couldn't really care less what someone thinks about me if I'm driving a fun 4-door sedan.
I suppose many IS300, WRX, STI, Evo, G8, M5, S4 and 3-series drivers would agree. Those cars certainly didn't lose out on image just because of the extra pair of doors.

Not to mention - we don't even know if the name of this sedan would even allude to the FRS/GT86.

[killerkid08]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

Carbon fiber is a terrible idea for those of modest means (which is who this car is marketed to in the first place). A mild collision will mean very expensive repairs since Carbon Fibre isn't as resilient as old fashioned aluminum and steel (dents can be corrected; CF would shatter). How much do you figure it will cost to insure a CF car (mass-produced or not)?

And KERS, unlike paddle-shifters (largely a ma
rketing gimmick in most current guises), would be something with true performance/efficiency value, so your comparison doesn't hold.

As for image, I couldn't really care less what someone thinks about me if I'm driving a fun 4-door sedan.
I suppose many IS300, WRX, STI, Evo, G8, M5, S4 and 3-series drivers would agree. Those cars certainly didn't lose out on image just because of the extra pair of doors.

Not to mention - we don't even know if the name of this sedan would even allude to the FRS/GT86.

I would not wee with weight added kers/hybrid. It wont be worth the added expense to the cash strapped folks, especiall6 if they cant afford carbon fiber.

All the sedans you just listed costed 30k+, stomp the fr-s in the hp figures, shoot the m5 is a super sedan.
Those cars didnt lose out on image due to the doors. They lost out on overall performance and were never coupes, minus the 22b/2.5rs and coupes of the 3 series line up. I owned three of those, evo, s4, and the 3 series. I always wanted a lighter evo, I gutted it from the front seats back, my s4 and 3series were sold to acquire better vehiclew rather than invest in the heavier platforms.

[regal]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

Carbon fiber is a terrible idea for those of modest means (which is who this car is marketed to in the first place). would agree. .

.

Absolutely the only reason I spent $25k on my FRS instead of a used Lotus Elise. The Elise was a superior car in every way shape or form except the carbon shell, too many deer around here.


I had to LOL with edmunds saying Scion was developing a car. Scion has never developed any vehicle, they comprise of a corp. office of sales guys and a dealer network. They ain't going to develop a dang thing but sales gimmicks.

[WolfpackS2k]

The problem is that the FRS intrinsically creates its own need for a 4 door option. Did you know that the FRS has a draw from buyers because it has back seats?... It's true. The existence of back seats is a selling a point vs a roadster. Did you know those back seats are useless for passengers? It's true, unless the 4 people in the car are all 4 feet tall, it really is a 2 passenger car. I am proof, I am representative of demand who can definitively say: I want a 4 door FRS. If the current version of this car had back seats that were actually functional then I wouldn't but they aren't so I do.

I absolutely bought this car because it has a small rear seat. Folded down small rear seats = huge trunk. It also means I have somewhere to put my dog while traveling. And yeah, occasionally I have transported a 3rd person back there, sitting sideways.

I'm all for a 4 door version of this car, but find this somewhat funny and entertaining. Basically they're trying to remake the Toyota Altezza (aka Lexus IS300) from 14 years ago.

-4 door sedan
-3200 lbs (3000lbs with the I4, not sold in US)
-RWD
-215 hp straight six

While I'm comparing the IS against a car that doesn't yet exist, I'd probably prefer the IS300. Straight six is a superior engine design, and it's handling was class leading at the time.

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I absolutely bought this car because it has a small rear seat. Folded down small rear seats = huge trunk. It also means I have somewhere to put my dog while traveling. And yeah, occasionally I have transported a 3rd person back there, sitting sideways.

I'm all for a 4 door version of this car, but find this somewhat funny and entertaining. Basically they're trying to remake the Toyota Altezza (aka Lexus IS300) from 14 years ago.

-4 door sedan
-3200 lbs (3000lbs with the I4, not sold in US)
-RWD
-215 hp straight six

While I'm comparing the IS against a car that doesn't yet exist, I'd probably prefer the IS300. Straight six is a superior engine design, and it's handling was class leading at the time.

I was never a huge fan of the is300. I think the biggest problem that car faced was bmw was still making a relatively light weight 3 series at the time. The e46 was just a superior car in every way for a bit more money. Hopefully the sedan version of the twins will be better than that car.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

I was never a huge fan of the is300. I think the biggest problem that car faced was bmw was still making a relatively light weight 3 series at the time. The e46 was just a superior car in every way for a bit more money. Hopefully the sedan version of the twins will be better than that car.

E46 is a good car, but the IS300's handling was still better than the E46's.

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

E46 is a good car, but the IS300's handling was still better than the E46's.

Oh really? From reviews I always thought the is300 was more prone to understeer than the bmws. Were there changes to the car over the model years?

[Cesium Rainbow]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

Oh really? From reviews I always thought the is300 was more prone to understeer than the bmws. Were there changes to the car over the model years?

Just based on spring rates and sway bars alone, I would think that every Lexus ever created has understeered more than its comparable BMW rival. All I know about the first-gen IS specifically is that Taniguchi never found success with his in D1, and that was a full HKS works car.
About 10 years ago my decision came down to the IS and a Maxima. Went with the Nissan and although it was very good I always regretted it.

[Whitigir]

Word has it Japanese automaker Toyota has approved production of the GT 86 four-door sedan. This piece of information comes via Auto Express, who claims, citing “inside sources”, that the vehicle will ride on the same platform as the GT 86 sportscar, but use a 100mm longer wheelbase.

What’s more, the sedan will feature Toyota’s “keen-look” grille design and will go on sale by the end of 2015 with prices starting from £28,000. As we learned from past reports, the GT 86 sedan will be powered by the already familiar 2.0-liter boxer engine rated at 197 HP, but will become available with the company’s new Hybrid R powertrain as well. The latter will reportedly deliver between 250 and 270 bhp.

We still don’t know how the sedan version of the GT 86 will look like, but Theophilus Chin’s recent rendering should be pretty close to the real thing.

I would love the Hybrid R with 250-270 HP hehehe. Hybrids = Best for low-end torque. Sedan = family as well. Perfect!

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I absolutely bought this car because it has a small rear seat. Folded down small rear seats = huge trunk. It also means I have somewhere to put my dog while traveling. And yeah, occasionally I have transported a 3rd person back there, sitting sideways.

I'm all for a 4 door version of this car, but find this somewhat funny and entertaining. Basically they're trying to remake the Toyota Altezza (aka Lexus IS300) from 14 years ago.

-4 door sedan
-3200 lbs (3000lbs with the I4, not sold in US)
-RWD
-215 hp straight six

While I'm comparing the IS against a car that doesn't yet exist, I'd probably prefer the IS300. Straight six is a superior engine design, and it's handling was class leading at the time.

I agree. I loved the IS300.
The problem with that 2JZ-GE?
Thirst.

Feeding the beast is pricey, and the IS300 was pretty infamous for lousy gas consumption (barely in the 20s for hwy mpg).
The Japanese got the RS200 with a BEAMS/Yamaha-tuned 3S-GE good for ~220ps IIRC, but we never saw that.

I do feel that there could've been some improvements to the practicality of the twins - if it had a hatch (think Celica or Integra, rather than Impreza 5-door or Mazda 3), it would be able to handle so much more things that life demands...