The new GT4

[wbradley]

If the new model renders the previous wholly inferior, and the money is burning a hole in your pocket then go for it.

Or if you are simply due for another vehicle and this one checks all the boxes for you there is another reason.

I suppose if the money was very plentiful my relationships with various cars would be a tad fickle.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Is it really the same? The build quality on the Supra is more than the 86. The same can be said of a 7 series versus a 2 series BMW. Same can be said on the Toyota Avalon versus a Yaris or a Arteon/CC versus the Jetta. Is the Cayman really just the same as a 911?

The door cards and much of the center console are literally the same on the 987 Cayman and 997 911. Over 50% of the suspension components are lifted directly from the 997. I could go on

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

This whole mid-engine vs rear engine thing reminds me of the UEL vs EL debate. Mid engine is not necessarily better than rear engine. So many other factors cumulatively matter more. I think identity of the 911 is more important to Porsche (and many Porsche enthusiasts) than any 'benefits' of moving the engine forward in a 911 (i.e. losing the useless rear seat). They make the Cayman, buy one of those. It's the same recipe they had with the early 911s & 914s. Never gonna happen!

Never say never. In 2017 the 911 RSR race car switched from rear engine to mid engine. Mid engine 911. Was done partially for weight distribution, but mainly because it freed up more space in the back for a crazy large diffuser.

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Well, not sure what "similar power" 911 you're talking about, but you really can't compare a GT4 to anything but a GT3 really. Suspension is a GT3 suspension optimized for the cayman platform.

Just to be clear, the GT4 utilizes the GT3's front suspension design/parts. The rear suspension is entirely different.

[Frye]

Dan Prosser (writer at EVO, probably the UK's best car enthusiast magazine) reviewed the new GT4 and said:

"If I had an original Cayman GT4, would I be in a hurry to upgrade to the new one? No, I wouldn't. I think that's probably the key point. Perhaps if I was using it as my everyday car, I would. But if it was a weekend car, right now, I think I'd be staying in the previous shape one."

YouTube

[WolfpackS2k]

I'm not disagreeing, but did he elaborate as to why?

The negatives that come to mind to me are:
-stupid cylinder deactivation feature (worthless on this car)
-stupid auto start/stop feature (again, worthless on this car)
-restrictive exhaust in the US, pretty lazy that they weren't able to give us something better than the EU exhaust (which necessitated required filters).
-worse sounding engine (caused by above)
-heavier

[Frye]

Negatives of the new GT4, from the video above:


"It's a friendlier car at the limit, compared to the previous GT4. It's not quite so sharp, not quite so aggressive. It's easier to get everything out of it. Lighter clutch pedal, lighter steering..." [compared to the previous GT4]

"The soundtrack is slightly muted. It's because of those gasoline particulate filters. It's just muffling the soundtrack...It just sounds a little bit flat."


"There are just a couple of things that are irritating. The soundtrack, it's not as rich and tuneful as I'd like it to be. The gear ratios are really long, and they're frustrating out on the road."

"When a car is otherwise brilliant, but it's got one flaw, you can overlook it. When a car is brilliant, and it's got a handful of flaws, it's difficult to overlook all of them, and they frustrate you."

"There is a sense that it's lost some of that single minded purpose. It's a slightly more well rounded car." [compared to the old GT4]

(I'm just listing the negatives; overall Prosser really liked the car. The video has great production value; worth a watch.)

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I'm not disagreeing, but did he elaborate as to why?

The negatives that come to mind to me are:
-stupid cylinder deactivation feature (worthless on this car)
-stupid auto start/stop feature (again, worthless on this car)
-restrictive exhaust in the US, pretty lazy that they weren't able to give us something better than the EU exhaust (which necessitated required filters).
-worse sounding engine (caused by above)
-heavier

Cylinder deactivation depends on implementation. Since there's one cat per bank, it's maybe possible to only shut the fuel injectors off and change the valve timing for one bank to increase valve overlap and reduce VE so less fresh air makes it to the cat. Then switch between banks to keep the cats warm.

My hunch is there might be some implicit test gaming here, because there's no way you can keep the cats at 400C while cycling cold air through them. Emissions test cycles don't have the car cruising down the road at constant speed for long, so the cat probably doesn't get cold enough to fail.

If they added extra stuff to the valvetrain then I agree that's pretty dumb.

The particulate filter is going to be required on US cars very soon. The switch to piezoelectric injectors should be to allow stratified charge by injecting on the compression stroke, and that produces a lot of PM. The EPA and CARB know this and are going to mandate it. Toyota's new engines got upgraded to piezo injectors and have the filters too.