Porsche 911R

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by IPGJames

...they are starting alienate some of their customer base...

I don't think they are, though. I think they're rewarding their customer base. The customer base that buys their truly top end vehicles. They've basically built the 911R as a thank you to those customers. They know the customer who is shopping for a CPO Cayman won't be looking at a Cayman GT4, or the customer debating between a 911C2 or a 911C4 isn't going to look at a 911TTS or GT3RS. Each level has its own top of the line and its own rewards.

[humdizzle]

yeah its pretty much a thank you to customers staying with them. Ferrari does the same thing. If I tried to get a new 488 or F12 at sticker today they would just say no sorry you bought a used Ferrari, buy a new California and then we'll talk about a 488. Just to get on the list for a LaFerrari you have to have had a serious collection with cars that you bought new from Ferrari.






But hey once you are on that list you are golden. LaFerraris are selling for like what 2-3 million over msrp these days?

[nikitopo]

Such cars are image makers for the companies. They know exactly what they are doing. They are not interested to sell these cars to the masses. They just want to make happy some loyal customers and at the same time have some enthusiasts with the brand. It is pretty much the same with the STi limited edition cars in Japan.

The latest is even more clear in the quote of mav1178's :

Dear Porsche Enthusiast,
Thank you for your interest in the limited edition 911 R.
While the 911 R is sold out, we encourage you to continue to use the Porsche Configurator to build your dream car.
Sincerely,
Porsche Cars North America

They assume that you are or you'll be a brand enthusiast. They know that you cannot buy this particular car, but there is a possibility to become a candidate customer ...

[Re_Invention]

Originally Posted by IPGJames

IMO this is not what the Porsche brand is about

Well there's your problem right there.

I can't say I speak for the brand either but here's a pretty good idea of what they're about: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/PAH3.DE?ltr=1



People cried the sky is falling when Porsche came out with a water cooled 911 and Boxster. People cried when the Cayenne came out. People cried when the Panamera came out. People cried when the Macan came out. People cried for the turbo power plants replacing the n/a flat sixes. People cry when they make limited run special edition cars. People will cry when the Mission E comes out. And behind everything, Porsche engineer's and bean counters continue to make great cars available - both accessible and wall poster material... but people love to cry.

It's a good thing you aren't a Ferrari fan! (just poking fun, no harm intended).

James, I am feeling empathetic though - modern cars are so expensive in general the barrier to entry is ridiculously high. So much so that traditional financing terms have increased substantially. I get that a car is typically the second most expensive purchase after a house but with wage stallment and vehicle class growth it's unbearable for many, myself included, to enjoy the icons. I wonder if it's always been like that.. Was the Ford GT 350 back in they day equivalent to today's price (~$60k)? I know entry cars have gotten cheaper in general due to manufacturing efficiency, global market leveraging, and more sophisticated accounting.. but I don't know - are special cars just as inaccessible as they always have been? The solace is the used market, ya know. So many 'super cars' are seemingly available at a massively discounted rate. I don't think that was as common back in the day due to the wage disparity being higher (no?). In other words, a Viper, S class, XLR or Lamborghini, due to volume (supply/demand) is far more attainable on the second hand market than a Packard, Grosse or Lamborghini was in the 60's. That's a hunch though, no numbers to back it. Also the depreciation rate feels much more rampant - so you can get into newer models quicker due to accelerated depreciation. That's how I managed to get into my 997. Granted, service costs don't change much!

[gramicci101]

I want to buy my wife a Panamera to replace her BMW, but she doesn't like Porsche.

[bfrank1972]

[murdoc]

Originally Posted by Norville Rogers

For some reason the old one makes the new one look big and ugly.

When I look again the new one makes the old one look small and ugly.

Is it just me?

Not just you. I think the new ones lost a lot of what made the old ones cool and unique looking, and the old ones look too much like a vw beetle.

But I still somehow like both.

[LSxJunkie]

My very favorite 991. Be still my beating heart.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by murdoc

the old ones look too much like a vw beetle.

Bloodlines

The evolution of the 911 has taken it on a very different path - obviously driven by technology, competition, culture, etc. Pretty much every 911 since 1999 is a different car - which isn't a bad thing, just different.

I think if anything, Porsche draws a lot of flak from 'aficionados' because they created a design that basically endured for 35 years. I can't think of any other car manufacturer that has done that (albeit the car evolved quite a bit in 1990).

Obviously driving experience between the two is going to be vastly different (both awesome), as will be the performance envelope. Now guess which one costs more by a huge margin?

[vh_supra26]

The entry-level and stretched versions of the Panamera will represent Porsche's big debuts for the upcoming Los Angeles Auto Show. But that's not all that the German automaker is bringing to the California expo.

Alongside them, Porsche will reveal for the first time its new 911 RSR. Like the new GT3 Cup revealed in Paris, the RSR is a racing version of Porsche's iconic sports car.

But where the GT3 Cup is designed for the company's various spec racing series, the RSR is made to dice it with the likes of the Corvette C7.R and BMW M6 GTLM in the GTE racing class that took over from the previous GT2 category five years ago.

The manufacturer has yet to provide any details regarding improvements over the current version to go with this solitary teaser sketch. But you can rest assured that the racing specialists in Zuffenhausen have done their considerable utmost to ensure that the top racing Elfen remains competitive and at the bleeding edge of what the regulations allow.

Following its reveal at the LA show, we can expect the new 911 RSR to hit racing circuits around the world competing in series such as the IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship, the FIA World Endurance Championship, the European Le Mans Series, and the Asian Le Mans Series.

http://www.carscoops.com/2016/11/new...ead-of-la.html

[vh_supra26]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqCQfuLtVxs"]Porsche 911 GT3 RS v Porsche 911 Turbo S | evo LEADERBOARD head to head - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKD2fNVP7kw"]New Porsche 911 Carrera 4 GTS tested | Autocar - YouTube[/ame]

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Re_Invention

Well there's your problem right there.

I can't say I speak for the brand either but here's a pretty good idea of what they're about: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/PAH3.DE?ltr=1



People cried the sky is falling when Porsche came out with a water cooled 911 and Boxster. People cried when the Cayenne came out. People cried when the Panamera came out. People cried when the Macan came out. People cried for the turbo power plants replacing the n/a flat sixes. People cry when they make limited run special edition cars. People will cry when the Mission E comes out. And behind everything, Porsche engineer's and bean counters continue to make great cars available - both accessible and wall poster material... but people love to cry.

It's a good thing you aren't a Ferrari fan! (just poking fun, no harm intended).

James, I am feeling empathetic though - modern cars are so expensive in general the barrier to entry is ridiculously high. So much so that traditional financing terms have increased substantially. I get that a car is typically the second most expensive purchase after a house but with wage stallment and vehicle class growth it's unbearable for many, myself included, to enjoy the icons. I wonder if it's always been like that.. Was the Ford GT 350 back in they day equivalent to today's price (~$60k)? I know entry cars have gotten cheaper in general due to manufacturing efficiency, global market leveraging, and more sophisticated accounting.. but I don't know - are special cars just as inaccessible as they always have been? The solace is the used market, ya know. So many 'super cars' are seemingly available at a massively discounted rate. I don't think that was as common back in the day due to the wage disparity being higher (no?). In other words, a Viper, S class, XLR or Lamborghini, due to volume (supply/demand) is far more attainable on the second hand market than a Packard, Grosse or Lamborghini was in the 60's. That's a hunch though, no numbers to back it. Also the depreciation rate feels much more rampant - so you can get into newer models quicker due to accelerated depreciation. That's how I managed to get into my 997. Granted, service costs don't change much!

All isn't sunshine and rainbows, however. Thanks to SUVs' increasingly large share of Porsche's vehicle sales their profit per vehicle is declining noticeably. And between lukewarm reviews and weak sales, the 718 Boxster and Cayman aren't exactly being well received. It's not a good sign when new models are easily available for several thousand under MSRP. That's not common for Porsches.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

All isn't sunshine and rainbows, however. Thanks to SUVs' increasingly large share of Porsche's vehicle sales their profit per vehicle is declining noticeably. And between lukewarm reviews and weak sales, the 718 Boxster and Cayman aren't exactly being well received. It's not a good sign when new models are easily available for several thousand under MSRP. That's not common for Porsches.

You could buy a 981 Boxster or Cayman for under MSRP right when it came out (I witnessed my parents haggling with the Porsche dealer on their 981 haha), but they would give you at most ~3k off and that was it. How much do they discount the 718 models?

I think Porsche should have not been such cheapasses and cast a completely new small displacement 6 cylinder shortblock/head for the refresh with a maximum of 89mm bore (I guess that would be like 95mm bore spacing instead of the 108? or so the current engines have). Chopping 2 cylinders off then increasing the price was a bad move. Maybe a turbo 2.5L H6 for the S model, and then 4 cylinders on the base model, but discount the price on the base model. Or shrink the bores even more to get a 2.3L H6 on the base model. The 981 base engine had a crazy short 72.5mm stroke. They could shrink the bore to 85mm which would still be quite reasonable as far as heat conduction losses go. Those changes would reduce the weight and size of the engine by a huge amount.

[Re_Invention]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

All isn't sunshine and rainbows, however. Thanks to SUVs' increasingly large share of Porsche's vehicle sales their profit per vehicle is declining noticeably. And between lukewarm reviews and weak sales, the 718 Boxster and Cayman aren't exactly being well received. It's not a good sign when new models are easily available for several thousand under MSRP. That's not common for Porsches.

Sure, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing if total gross profit revenue is increasing - it's inverse relationship between volume & margin. The 911 is no different, it was down 20.9% in November 2016 over November 2015 total sales. Cayman and Boxster were down 32.6%. Total Porsche sales are up 5.1% however with the Macan leading the charge at 113.5% followed by the Panamera at 48.9% year over year. I think in general however 2016 saw some slowing in luxury goods uptake in the US, no? Shooting from the hip on that one.

I don't know what the profit margin differences are between models. From what I'm reading there's been a 1% decrease trend annually in profit margin, but total operating profit 'surged' 25% upward in 2016 and gross profits saw increases annually with a large hike in 2015. I'm under the impression they are all expensive and Porsche still has the best margins in the industry. To me they are pushing for greater market share in China and elsewhere where lower performance vehicles can make a bigger sales impact - and then allow for greater margin items (OPPPPPTTTIOOONNNSSSS!!!!!) to help out on top of 1) absorbing competition 2) expanding dealership network 3) investing for future brand loyalty/interest. Now they will focus on electrolytes and voodoo magic with plug-ins, Mission E and whatever else they come up with and infrastructure expansion while serving their Volkswagen overlords.

I can't speak on behalf of the reception. Again, I'm under the impression everyone bemoans the loss of flat 6 music but succumb to the power and torque. All of the auto journalists I've read/seen like the 718 so far and it's objectively better in every way to its predecessor. A 718S does the Nurburgring as quick as a GT4 with equal rubber.

That all being said give me a 3.8l Boxster Spyder all day every day in every way.