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View Poll Results: What name should Toyota use for the production Toyota FT-1?
Supra gets my vote! 367 74.59%
I don't know, but its time for a new name. 125 25.41%
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:37 PM   #1401
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rendering from Topspeed

That's very old.
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:41 PM   #1402
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Looks like a Paseo

Whoa, it's RRnold! Haven't seen you in a while, although I haven't been around here much either.
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:42 PM   #1403
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and the ability to trade files back and forth instantly for colaboration.
If you knew how to actually do this you could make billions of dollars.
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:44 PM   #1404
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Whoa, it's RRnold! Haven't seen you in a while, although I haven't been around here much either.
What's up! Long time no post huh!

I lurk here just to see what's going on in the twins world. This thread happen to catch my attention.
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Old 01-06-2017, 06:04 PM   #1405
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What's up! Long time no post huh!

I lurk here just to see what's going on in the twins world. This thread happen to catch my attention.
I take it you didn't buy a twin?

I stopped following this thread after seeing the first prototypes because like the FT86 prototype, the real thing is going to be a huge disappointment by comparison LOL. So many cool scoops and ducts that are going to get nixed.
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Old 01-06-2017, 06:30 PM   #1406
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If you knew how to actually do this you could make billions of dollars.
Servers, FTP, intranet, internet, LAN, WAN. I guess I am gonna be rich!
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Old 01-06-2017, 11:22 PM   #1407
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This thread never fails to dash my hopes and dreams
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Old 01-07-2017, 02:10 PM   #1408
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Looks like a Paseo

Toyota tried to use the Paseo to get youth to buy, but it was just a miserable rebadged/reskinned Tercel.

Fast forward 2 decades, and they seem to have forgotten that lesson with Scion (despite some success with the Celica, Echo and MRS Genesis cars).

Totally not FT1 related, but that blast from the past got me thinking about the 1995-2009-era malaise-Toyota.

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Old 01-08-2017, 03:35 PM   #1409
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Toyota tried to use the Paseo to get youth to buy, but it was just a miserable rebadged/reskinned Tercel.

Fast forward 2 decades, and they seem to have forgotten that lesson with Scion (despite some success with the Celica, Echo and MRS Genesis cars).

Totally not FT1 related, but that blast from the past got me thinking about the 1995-2009-era malaise-Toyota.

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You think so? I think Toyota did great with the Scion brand when you consider it was only a marketing strategy which required far less capital investment than a new product range as it was all already existing product or a modification of an existing product (FR-S notwithstanding and see Subaru collaboration to mitigate costs!).

The last gen Celica sold 49,600 units over four years. And that was an excellent car in my opinion, hatchback practicality, very sporty looks, attractive price point, sporty handling without being stiff or unsettling, pandered to both casual daily drivers (1.8 matched to a 5 spd auto getting 36 mpg) and driving enthusiasts (1.8 Yamaha built 9k rpm screamer matched to a 6 mt) with the typical Toyota reliability and storied Celica namesake. The tC sold over 245,000 units in its first fours years and that's just a Camry coupe. And they were the same price new. You can see where the success was and where the Youth voted (5x over for the 'inferior' product!).

Looking at the Scion brand sales were 11k, 99k, 156k, 173k, 130k, 114k, 58k, 46k, 49k, 74k, 68k in its first decade (2003 - 2012) which included the market turn down in 2008 that saw major decline in consumer spending across the board, and they still maintained above 50k units per year until their termination. That's nearly 40% of all Subaru brand sales in the United States over the same period. Not bad for a sub-brand in my opinion.

Now, culturally speaking, I think there is less of a case for any Youth brand with the shifting market desire for automobiles, the type of product (hybrid, ev, 'smart', etc.) stricter regulations and fewer drivers. Consider the five years between 1999 to 2004 saw an increased in licensed active drivers go up 11,719,000 where as from 2009 to 2014 saw only a positive change of 4,474,000 active licensed drivers. Of course, we'd have to look at median age/birth/death/immigration rates over the same periods and trailing 16 years to get a better picture but just on face value it shows a significant drop in licensed drivers gained to begin with.

Either way, I really like the 7th gen Celica
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Old 01-08-2017, 04:32 PM   #1410
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You think so? I think Toyota did great with the Scion brand when you consider it was only a marketing strategy which required far less capital investment than a new product range as it was all already existing product or a modification of an existing product (FR-S notwithstanding and see Subaru collaboration to mitigate costs!).

The last gen Celica sold 49,600 units over four years. And that was an excellent car in my opinion, hatchback practicality, very sporty looks, attractive price point, sporty handling without being stiff or unsettling, pandered to both casual daily drivers (1.8 matched to a 5 spd auto getting 36 mpg) and driving enthusiasts (1.8 Yamaha built 9k rpm screamer matched to a 6 mt) with the typical Toyota reliability and storied Celica namesake. The tC sold over 245,000 units in its first fours years and that's just a Camry coupe. And they were the same price new. You can see where the success was and where the Youth voted (5x over for the 'inferior' product!).

Looking at the Scion brand sales were 11k, 99k, 156k, 173k, 130k, 114k, 58k, 46k, 49k, 74k, 68k in its first decade (2003 - 2012) which included the market turn down in 2008 that saw major decline in consumer spending across the board, and they still maintained above 50k units per year until their termination. That's nearly 40% of all Subaru brand sales in the United States over the same period. Not bad for a sub-brand in my opinion.

Now, culturally speaking, I think there is less of a case for any Youth brand with the shifting market desire for automobiles, the type of product (hybrid, ev, 'smart', etc.) stricter regulations and fewer drivers. Consider the five years between 1999 to 2004 saw an increased in licensed active drivers go up 11,719,000 where as from 2009 to 2014 saw only a positive change of 4,474,000 active licensed drivers. Of course, we'd have to look at median age/birth/death/immigration rates over the same periods and trailing 16 years to get a better picture but just on face value it shows a significant drop in licensed drivers gained to begin with.

Either way, I really like the 7th gen Celica
Don't get me wrong, I had a 7th Gen Celica and loved it (my first complaint with my BRZ was that it wasn't a hatchback). I think it was outsold by the tC more because by 2006 (the first tC year) the Celica had been languishing without meaningful updates and would soon be canceled.

I just felt that Scion was a cynical rebadged exercise (the xA and xD being just a Yaris/Echo hatchback in a hoodie).

The first tC wasn't bad either, nor was the xB (first gen), but it seemed like those were the only mainstream Scion products that benefited from real effort. The FRS and iQ were more niche, though I still think the iQ was pretty cool. Eh, maybe I'm wrong and Scion was just a victim of bad timing and market conditions.

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Old 01-08-2017, 04:52 PM   #1411
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Don't get me wrong, I had a 7th Gen Celica and loved it (my first complaint with my BRZ was that it wasn't a hatchback).

I just felt that Scion was a cynical rebadged exercise (the xA and xD being just a Yaris/Echo hatchback in a hoodie).

The first tC wasn't bad either, nor was the xB (first gen), but it seemed like those were the only mainstream Scion products that benefited from real effort. The FRS and iQ were more niche, though I still think the iQ was pretty cool. Eh, maybe I'm wrong and Scion was just a victim of bad timing and market conditions.

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Yeah that Celica was wholly underappreciated, especially for taller folks - it was easy and comfortable for a 6'5+ individual to fit with helmet due to the really low seat mount and higher belt line. Lots of usable space.

My previous point was it was great timing for Scion - they got sales in before a culture change. Those Fast and Furious movies aren't doing much for manufactures anymore For a sub brand to sell an additional 1,000,000 units re-branded/cycled product to appeal to a greater audience from an already developed product is fantastic. Sales numbers matter irregardless of real effort or not. If Scion was selling cardboard boxes hanging on a bicycle as an eco-model but still turned a profit and took a sale away from a competitor, it's a win.

In other words, I'm not judging the product, just the sales performance and what that meant to Toyota. And I'm pointing out that re-skinning or recycling internal products (paseo/tercel, tC/camry, xA/xD/xB/iA/yaris, iM/Corolla) or badge sharing (fr-s/brz, iQ/Cygnet) made a great deal of sense for the brand and in my opinion, increased profitability for any sales generated due to lowering direct costs for an easier break-even. I think the overhead on running the youth sub brand is far lower than running a free-standing company with product development like Subaru, Mazda, etc. which didn't see THAT much more volume (US sales only) compared to Scion over the decade plus it was alive. Let alone for the demographics targeted (restricted budgets = less inherent profit in up scaling!).

Point is, I think Toyota did a great move with Scion and as a knowingly experimental/interim sub brand, timed it very well and made the parent company good money. But I could be entirely false on all accounts - maybe the overheads were significant and the unit volumes sales didn't come with a significant enough premium over keeping the standard skin ala yaris, corolla, camry and would have been better off diversifying the Toyota lineup with more variants.

Edit: forgot I wanted to bring this back to the FT-1 with platform sharing with BMW. In retrospect with Subaru, I gotta say - I'm going to stay positive about the prospects. Like many posters here and throughout the armchair auto journalist empire, I, too, feel BMW has lost some of its DNA to the mass pool dilution with the I want everything for under $30k. Still, Toyota did it so damn perfect with Subaru on the FR-S in my opinion that I have faith they will deliver on the namesake of Supra with their collaboration with BMW. I mean come on - the history of inline 6's between the two is perfect!
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:18 PM   #1412
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More sportscars - who's complaining?

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Old 01-08-2017, 11:26 PM   #1413
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One thought I wanna add is Toyota should reexplore bringing back the inline 6 how about rework the 2JZ to meet today's emissions and have them twin turbos with direct injection for thr GS, LS and RC coupe.
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:33 PM   #1414
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One thought I wanna add is Toyota should reexplore bringing back the inline 6 how about rework the 2JZ to meet today's emissions and have them twin turbos with direct injection for thr GS, LS and RC coupe.
Fun fact: Toyota made a direct injected version of the 2JZ in Naturally Aspirated form. It was called the 2JZ-FSE. I have been trying to source one for quite some time now, but they have proved quite elusive.

That's all.
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