OFH wait time

[Koa]

Originally Posted by RobertPaulson

i'd argue that you're better off with the stock tune with just a front pipe, catback and drop in filter than the ots tune and then getting a pro tune once you add the header. with the above mods my car hit 176whp on the dyno. I've seen a fully bolted car with an OTS tune hit less than that.



i see this argument a lot and i think its a bogus one. A used oft is around 425 shipped, and the OFH has been shown to not fix the dip on several dyno plots i've seen posted here. so throw down an extra 125$ and get a pro tune and spend the same amount of money on the tomei uel header and not only do you get more power and a better power band, but you really only spent a date night out with that special lady and treat your car. But hey, its your car, do with it what you will .

Why are we measuring dyno numbers without direct lateral comparisons between platforms under similar atmospheric circumstances?

The Tomei is a 'nicer' header, all else equal but that's not what I'm getting at, you missed the point I was making:

1. OFH + OFT

Around $900 (can push down to 700-800 used) can get you a platform that is able to be custom tuned, albeit limited and outright shunned at most pro shops right now (looking at you Bob@DriftOffice! )

2. Ecutek "pro tune" package + header

x2 the cost. Flat out. Ecutek kit is $850 right now at FT86SF (average of the E85 and petrol offerings )

More performance. The real question is whether this option gives a larger benefit. Does this option have arguably 1/4 more performance especially after the user adjusts timing and scales MAF to fit their environment and fuel source?

RaceRom and flex fuel are whole 'nother beasts entirely and the value (& cost) jumps up significantly if one needs those add-ons

3. Full bolt ons and Ecutek

x3+ the cost. Laughable gains for the money spent- but we're not rational creatures. My 86 is almost to full-bolt (missing FP/OP) and arguably worse off since I didn't buy a flexfuel kit in lieu of an intake and catback.


That's my argument and I welcome people to explain to me the merits of maximizing a stock internals naturally aspirated platform for the street


I will argue that whatever the tuning route, a high-flow header and appropriate off-the-shelf tune would whoop the shit out of an untuned fully bolt on contender, all else equal, under similar conditions, all day.

RP not tryin to nitpick you specifically, I enjoy the debate

[efactor84]

Forum forgot to mention RomRaider when custom tuning OpenFlashTablet files for free and using OFT definitions.

[RobertPaulson]

Originally Posted by steve99

Yawn, not again
do you work for ecutek or something ?
how do you explain 20 hp on the supposedly oft tune killing maha dyno ? with a STOCK header.

so were just looking at an E85 tune basicly. and and old version tune as well

I do not, so i have to ask, do you work for vishnu?

here's a comparison that i dug up just for you of a car that has a OFH and full catback with drop in filter on the stock tune vs the OFT stage 2 on 92 pump gas.

those gains and that torque dip.

[raven1231]

Where did you dig sir?

[RobertPaulson]

Originally Posted by Koa

Why are we measuring dyno numbers without direct lateral comparisons between platforms under similar atmospheric circumstances?

we are, look above

Originally Posted by Koa

1. OFH + OFT

Around $900 (can push down to 700-800 used) can get you a platform that is able to be custom tuned, albeit limited and outright shunned at most pro shops right now (looking at you Bob@DriftOffice! )

2. Ecutek "pro tune" package + header

x2 the cost. Flat out. Ecutek kit is $850 right now at FT86SF (average of the E85 and petrol offerings )

that's too much, you can get a full custom tune and a ecutek license for 650. you can also try to find a tuner to use other tuning software for less if you want to cut out ecutek license cost.

Originally Posted by Koa

More performance. The real question is whether this option gives a larger benefit. Does this option have arguably 1/4 more performance especially after the user adjusts timing and scales MAF to fit their environment and fuel source?

I don't know about you, but i rather trust my tuner to make those tweaks to ensure my tune is safe vs doing it myself. Also, i'd say most OFT users don't do this, they just plug and play and have that nice placebo effect from the butt dyno.

Originally Posted by Koa

RaceRom and flex fuel are whole 'nother beasts entirely and the value (& cost) jumps up significantly if one needs those add-ons

i wouldn't run e85 without a flexfuel kit to monitor the ethanol content of my fuel. but that's me, i know plenty of people do without it.

Originally Posted by Koa

3. Full bolt ons and Ecutek

x3+ the cost. Laughable gains for the money spent- but we're not rational creatures. My 86 is almost to full-bolt (missing FP/OP) and arguably worse off since I didn't buy a flexfuel kit in lieu of an intake and catback.

again you're too high on this, i went fully bolted for 2200$ including the cost of the tune. that's just over 2x more than the ofh/oft combo and my results are much better than what i posted above and i have the support of my tuner should any issues arise. you don't get that with OFT.

Originally Posted by Koa

I will argue that whatever the tuning route, a high-flow header and appropriate off-the-shelf tune would whoop the shit out of an untuned fully bolt on contender, all else equal, under similar conditions, all day.

RP not tryin to nitpick you specifically, I enjoy the debate

you are free to feel that way, but i've shown you proof that you would be incorrect. I've also seen dyno from James who's another one of the best tuners for our platform and he's seen cars LOSE power running a stage 2 OFT tune.

[RobertPaulson]

Originally Posted by raven1231

Where did you dig sir?

facebook groups dedicated to our cars, please don't just take my word for it. ask all the major tuners for our cars. Drift office, James Martin, Delicious tuning, the boys at CSG.

Ask them what they think and make your own opinion about it. I'm just hoping i can save someone some money on buying something that just won't give them the results they're looking for.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by RobertPaulson

facebook groups dedicated to our cars, please don't just take my word for it. ask all the major tuners for our cars. Drift office, James Martin, Delicious tuning, the boys at CSG.

Ask them what they think and make your own opinion about it. I'm just hoping i can save someone some money on buying something that just won't give them the results they're looking for.

My only concern by those you listed is that they're all benefiting by using ECUTEK, because they can charge for tuning rather than an OTS tune.

[RobertPaulson]

Originally Posted by raven1231

My only concern by those you listed is that they're all benefiting by using ECUTEK, because they can charge for tuning rather than an OTS tune.

well if you talked to drift office, he'll tell you he doesn't like ecutek for their practices, however for our cars, there's no other tuning option that allows access to all the parameters needed for him. specially once you go FI.

I come from a car that had cobb AccessPort support. I get the draw of having something you can sell after the fact. and I wanted an OFT at first. However after much research, talking to multiple tuners and seeing the results first hand from local owners I came to the conclusion the OFT is not an AP and a custom tune using whatever my local tuner choose was going to be my best and safest bet.

[RobertPaulson]

and now for the ofh + oft stage 2 vs the same mods and a custom tune.

note that the ofh doesn't really address the torque dip like some other headers on the market.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Koa

Why are we measuring dyno numbers without direct lateral comparisons between platforms under similar atmospheric circumstances?

The Tomei is a 'nicer' header, all else equal but that's not what I'm getting at, you missed the point I was making:

1. OFH + OFT

Around $900 (can push down to 700-800 used) can get you a platform that is able to be custom tuned, albeit limited and outright shunned at most pro shops right now (looking at you Bob@DriftOffice! )

2. Ecutek "pro tune" package + header

x2 the cost. Flat out. Ecutek kit is $850 right now at FT86SF (average of the E85 and petrol offerings )

More performance. The real question is whether this option gives a larger benefit. Does this option have arguably 1/4 more performance especially after the user adjusts timing and scales MAF to fit their environment and fuel source?

RaceRom and flex fuel are whole 'nother beasts entirely and the value (& cost) jumps up significantly if one needs those add-ons

3. Full bolt ons and Ecutek

x3+ the cost. Laughable gains for the money spent- but we're not rational creatures. My 86 is almost to full-bolt (missing FP/OP) and arguably worse off since I didn't buy a flexfuel kit in lieu of an intake and catback.


That's my argument and I welcome people to explain to me the merits of maximizing a stock internals naturally aspirated platform for the street


I will argue that whatever the tuning route, a high-flow header and appropriate off-the-shelf tune would whoop the shit out of an untuned fully bolt on contender, all else equal, under similar conditions, all day.

RP not tryin to nitpick you specifically, I enjoy the debate

Can't put a price on pulling on someone. There may have been an incident where a OFH + OFT car was walked by a ACE + Ecutek car. And the ACE car was a gear higher when the pull started...

[steve99]

Originally Posted by RobertPaulson

I do not, so i have to ask, do you work for vishnu?

here's a comparison that i dug up just for you of a car that has a OFH and full catback with drop in filter on the stock tune vs the OFT stage 2 on 92 pump gas.

those gains and that torque dip.

Yes that looks bad

Again it done by rival tuner
just like the maha dyno e85 oft tune, when rival tuner puts it in maha dyno car wont pull from low rpm has massive stall in midrange makes little power

as above guy just takes his car in to same dyno with same e85 tune and it performs fine ?? makes 20 hp with stock header

no i dont work for anyone , im just open minded.

and like many want bang for buck

here ecutek tuner,s charge $1800 for a dyno tune on petrol ,no flash and go offered, no E85 offered unless you do flex kit as well that runs to about $3000 with ecutek tune. and no cable either.

and on independant dyno days the difference is not enough to warant that cost difference. Basic Header and oft tune on E85 rest stock yeilds about 20kW or so on our dynos Stock cars just over 100-105kw , E85 header/tune round the 125-130kw

We dont all live in America with a tuner in easy reach unfortunatly, suff is heaps cheaper where you are

and i dont feel the need to endless rubbish something that does perform well for the price point we are not all building race cars.

[RobertPaulson]

Originally Posted by steve99

Yes that looks bad

Again it done by rival tuner
just like the maha dyno e85 oft tune, when rival tuner puts it in maha dyno car wont pull from low rpm has massive stall in midrange makes little power

as above guy just takes his car in to same dyno with same e85 tune and it performs fine ?? makes 20 hp with stock header

no i dont work for anyone , im just open minded.

and like many want bang for buck

here ecutek tuner,s charge $1800 for a dyno tune on petrol ,no flash and go offered, no E85 offered unless you do flex kit as well that runs to about $3000 with ecutek tune. and no cable either.

and on independant dyno days the difference is not enough to warant that cost difference. Basic Header and oft tune on E85 rest stock yeilds about 20kW or so on our dynos Stock cars just over 100-105kw , E85 header/tune round the 125-130kw

We dont all live in America with a tuner in easy reach unfortunatly, suff is heaps cheaper where you are

and i dont feel the need to endless rubbish something that does perform well for the price point we are not all building race cars.

I can assure you no bias was made on that dyno, the results are actually quite consistent with OTS tunes from OFT and have all been done in the name of research to see what is the best solution for our cars.

like i've said, ask the major tuners for our cars what they think of all the tuning solutions available.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Can't put a price on pulling on someone. There may have been an incident where a OFH + OFT car was walked by a ACE + Ecutek car. And the ACE car was a gear higher when the pull started...

I would pretty disapointed if i brought and ace header and a custom tune and it did not outperform a basic header and an off the shelf tune.

for me an oft + header is 1000 excluding delivery flash myself no trip to tuner required
for me a ecutek custom tune is $1800 no cable plus ace header $1700 total $3500.
if i want e85 another $1000 for flex kit and sensor (ecutek wont do e85 without flex kit here)

yes i would be pissed if i did not beat the oft guy and spent that much

but if i flashed my (free) oft e85 tune the difference might be less.

Our petrol is crap worse than your 91 so e85 is a big boost for us.

We are not all building race cars, or sponsored and not all in usa where stuff is cheaper and tuners on every street corner, were spending our own hard earned cash.

For us 80% or so of gain for half or a third of the cost is what many are after.

different strokes for different folks

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by steve99

Yes that looks bad

Again it done by rival tuner
just like the maha dyno e85 oft tune, when rival tuner puts it in maha dyno car wont pull from low rpm has massive stall in midrange makes little power

as above guy just takes his car in to same dyno with same e85 tune and it performs fine ?? makes 20 hp with stock header

no i dont work for anyone , im just open minded.

and like many want bang for buck

here ecutek tuner,s charge $1800 for a dyno tune on petrol ,no flash and go offered, no E85 offered unless you do flex kit as well that runs to about $3000 with ecutek tune. and no cable either.

and on independant dyno days the difference is not enough to warant that cost difference. Basic Header and oft tune on E85 rest stock yeilds about 20kW or so on our dynos Stock cars just over 100-105kw , E85 header/tune round the 125-130kw

We dont all live in America with a tuner in easy reach unfortunatly, suff is heaps cheaper where you are

and i dont feel the need to endless rubbish something that does perform well for the price point we are not all building race cars.

Your minimum wage is more than I make hourly coaching at racing schools.... apples and oranges.

I can go to a happy hour and get a beer for $2.50 here.