200hp / 2700lbs - Really?

[Dimman]

Is it the Mk II Extra-Rice Concept that is attracting these goddamn, 'Z-car performance for Corolla price' noobs.

What part of 'Entry-level sports car' do people have trouble understanding? Fucksakes...

[Zorro]

FYI I was lurking this site for about 7-8 months before I joined. Nothing to do with the MK2 Which needs to loose the bling and rear bumper.

Sorry, but I consider a low 30s pricetag to STILL be entry level. I have been saying it all along.

low to mid 20k for the N/A. low to mid 30k for the FI.

Why do you guys get so pissed at that notion? Can't we all get along? I realize that the N/A is coming out for sure and turbo is still up in the air.

Can't I hope they make MY dream car as well?

[Midship Runabout]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Is it the Mk II Extra-Rice Concept that is attracting these goddamn, 'Z-car performance for Corolla price' noobs.

What part of 'Entry-level sports car' do people have trouble understanding? Fucksakes...

^ this

[Dimman]

It just seems that there are a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon, since the Mk II Concept, all wanting it to be a Z car, Genesis, or Mustang. They come here and tells us how it should be this way or that way, because the Z, Genesis, or Mustang is.

It's like a broken freaking record. To get the concept of what Toyota is doing, people have to realize that if they want Z, Genesis, or Mustang features, there are Nissan, Hyundai and Ford dealers that will be happy to fulfill their wishes.

But for Toyota to immediately throw a direct competitor into that bunch is not the smartest business decision. Give it time people...

What we're looking at now, is a Civic Si competitor in terms of price, power, weight (previous generation anyways), economy, but with the proper wheels driven, and the handling of a Porsche Cayman (Toyota's benchmark). Toyota wants to make money through volume at first, I'm sure. They have better chances with the less expensive cars. Economy kind of dictates that too.

If this thing is insanely popular, there will very likely be a bigger, faster, 'move-up' car in the future. Just be patient.

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by Zorro

low to mid 20k for the N/A. low to mid 30k for the FI.

Why do you guys get so pissed at that notion?

we don't get pissed off at this notion. we get pissed off when people say that "a low to mid 20k with 200hp is too weak to sell." and last i checked, that is exactly what you said.

[Archer256]

Originally Posted by Dimman

But for Toyota to immediately throw a direct competitor into that bunch is not the smartest business decision. Give it time people...

If this thing is insanely popular, there will very likely be a bigger, faster, 'move-up' car in the future. Just be patient.

this. toyota can make a high power car easily, however that requires money. What are they going to do with that engine (well ok they can put it in another car) but what about all the money they dumped into R&D if the car is a dud? This is a smart way to come back into this market segment.

[xantonin]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Is it the Mk II Extra-Rice Concept that is attracting these goddamn, 'Z-car performance for Corolla price' noobs.

What part of 'Entry-level sports car' do people have trouble understanding? Fucksakes...

No.

Considering that I liked the Mk II concept the most and it brought back my attraction to this car, I'm more than content that it will handle well and offer decent performance (ie, entry level).

So, to answer your question, no. I want this car for what it is being advertised to be; lightweight, RWD and handling nicely. I've been following it since the initial announcement of the FT-HS.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by cyde01

we don't get pissed off at this notion. we get pissed off when people say that "a low to mid 20k with 200hp is too weak to sell." and last i checked, that is exactly what you said.

Perhaps I used too strong of words. Reading my post again, it does sound rather crude. What I mean is that I think it won't sell enough numbers to justify keeping it around for very long. Now if this thing is dirt cheap 22-23k I wouldn't doubt it will sell well.

Originally Posted by Archer256

this. toyota can make a high power car easily, however that requires money. What are they going to do with that engine (well ok they can put it in another car) but what about all the money they dumped into R&D if the car is a dud? This is a smart way to come back into this market segment.

Why wait? Hyundai release 2 models from the get-go and that thing is selling like hotcakes. How much R&D could it really take to boost this thing?

Not saying I care if they release it in two stages. I won't be looking getting a new ride for quite some time.

Originally Posted by Dimman

It just seems that there are a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon, since the Mk II Concept, all wanting it to be a Z car, Genesis, or Mustang. They come here and tells us how it should be this way or that way, because the Z, Genesis, or Mustang is.

It's like a broken freaking record. To get the concept of what Toyota is doing, people have to realize that if they want Z, Genesis, or Mustang features, there are Nissan, Hyundai and Ford dealers that will be happy to fulfill their wishes.

But for Toyota to immediately throw a direct competitor into that bunch is not the smartest business decision. Give it time people...

What we're looking at now, is a Civic Si competitor in terms of price, power, weight (previous generation anyways), economy, but with the proper wheels driven, and the handling of a Porsche Cayman (Toyota's benchmark). Toyota wants to make money through volume at first, I'm sure. They have better chances with the less expensive cars. Economy kind of dictates that too.

If this thing is insanely popular, there will very likely be a bigger, faster, 'move-up' car in the future. Just be patient.

I see what your saying. It's just all those cars are just still too big to be what I'm looking for. Although the Z comes close, it's still a little too heavy and is not very mod-friendly unless boosted. I guess all I can do is cross my fingers.

[Archer256]

Because Hyundai quality is cheaper.

Toyota is not.

Toyota's last you decades, Hyundai's do not.

As for boost, ill leave it to the other more knowledgeable users about the pros and cons of boosting

[Dimman]

To clarify, Xantonin, I would consider you 'new', not a noob. Noob being more of new, and opinionated while clueless in a particularly annoying way.

Although I prefer the Mk I, I have accepted (to a degree, I can fix some of it myself), the Mk II. (I'm trying very hard to prepare myself in the event that it ends up a Scion.) I also appreciate that it may be bringing in new members, and piquing people's interest in the car.

But it won't do anyone any favours for those new to this sexy car, that gets them all excited, to have unrealistic performance and price expectations. It just leads to letdown and maybe even some backlash against Toyota.

[Exage]

Originally Posted by Dimman

It just seems that there are a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon, since the Mk II Concept, all wanting it to be a Z car, Genesis, or Mustang. They come here and tells us how it should be this way or that way, because the Z, Genesis, or Mustang is.

If this thing is insanely popular, there will very likely be a bigger, faster, 'move-up' car in the future. Just be patient.

I've seen that most of the enthusiast community has taken to this approach though. Their ignorance is somewhat laughable. They haven't bothered to research the car, only the (stated) price and bhp figures.

If Toyota/Subaru had stated that the car would do 24mpg city people might re-think about a V6 with 19mpg city at best...

The moment they announced a boxer engine going in the FT should have signalled that there's a very good chance some turbocharged boxer is coming or is going to be swappable. Cheers to waiting around!

[Dimman]

Yes. Cheers to waiting around.

There is a lot that can be done with this platform in the future.

Not necessarily this exact car with a different exterior, but the platform. It can be tweaked, modified, adapted (look what Nissan did with their FM platform, Z cars to G sedans to FX SUVs).

They could make a new IS, a new Supra, a new SC (baby LFA?)...

They could conceivably put in a GR V6, Subaru's H6, the next-gen STi's turbo H4...

But it's not going to happen all at once.

And they will do it only if they can make money. But the idea is where do the FT86 owners go to upgrade after they've had their car for a few years? Toyota doesn't want them going to a Z car...

If this concept is not your cup of tea, there is a chance in the future that Lexus will release a new SC to compete with the G, with a 6 cylinder and more lux, somewhat based on this platform. Who knows...?

This is the BEGINNING people. Starting with an excellent handling lightweight chassis, is the BEGINNING.

[xantonin]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Yes. Cheers to waiting around.

There is a lot that can be done with this platform in the future.

Not necessarily this exact car with a different exterior, but the platform. It can be tweaked, modified, adapted (look what Nissan did with their FM platform, Z cars to G sedans to FX SUVs).

They could make a new IS, a new Supra, a new SC (baby LFA?)...

They could conceivably put in a GR V6, Subaru's H6, the next-gen STi's turbo H4...

But it's not going to happen all at once.

And they will do it only if they can make money. But the idea is where do the FT86 owners go to upgrade after they've had their car for a few years? Toyota doesn't want them going to a Z car...

If this concept is not your cup of tea, there is a chance in the future that Lexus will release a new SC to compete with the G, with a 6 cylinder and more lux, somewhat based on this platform. Who knows...?

This is the BEGINNING people. Starting with an excellent handling lightweight chassis, is the BEGINNING.

I agree, and I'll be proud to own one of the cars that started it. I may upgrade later, or keep it, not sure.

[Archer256]

Lexus NEEDS a new SC they dont have anything in the segment while their competition does. Either they make a coupe variant of the IS or they bring back the SC. Well even if they make a coupe IS they still need the SC or something to replace it.