valve spring issue?

[ermax]

Originally Posted by frsty_86

Geez, some of you act like the internal combustion engine is some sort of alien technology. Any competent technician understands how one operates and what a valve spring does. You're comparing apples to green apples. A GM engine technician would be able to work on a Chrysler engine, Honda, Toyota Kia etc. They're all engines with similar inner workings, granted, the boxer is different from an inline or V configuration, but is still not a new technology. They've been around awhile and still do the same things any other engine does.

Plus if things go south and my engine blows up I either:
1. Get a free engine out of it, or
2. Accelerate my plan to engine swap my car with something else

I'm really NOT concerned the least bit.

I've laid out in detail my main concern and I personally have never even made reference to "boxer" as a concern. Not all boxers are covered in so much packing my concern has nothing to do with layout.

[Steeps]

I am concerned with how "Toyota trained technicians" are going to handle this as I'm sure stripping down and rebuilding engines is part of the training when probably 99% of the work a garage does is serviceable items like fluid changes and other consumables.



My last experience with a dealer took 5 months to resolve as the dealer had no clue how to diagnose and fix an issue that was not routine, even using their "master technician" who supposedly knew the car, watching them work was painful to watch as they were not familiar with something as basic as a car door.


First of all they couldn't diagnose the issue/what was causing it so I had to show them how a window worked.

When I got the car back the first time the central locking was broken.
When I got the car back the second time there was glass everywhere, trim was broken, all the rubbish had been left in the door cavity, scratches on paint, seals not fixed properly, vapour barrier damaged, other completely missing.
Third time I got the car back the replacement door card from earlier damage was filthy and moldy on the inside (second hand part, dealer refused to replace with new) and replacement vapour barrier had marks on it where the technician had routed the locking mechanism through the wrong holes, realised it didn't fit and had to re-do the work again. Door seal not fitted properly.


All this just to replace the glass and guides in a door... and I'm supposed to trust them to rebuild an engine?

[WNDSRFR]

Yeah
My first and only oil change done at the dealer took 3 hours. That's because they double gasketted the oil filter. And as soon as they started the car, oil sprayed all over everything. They had all the panels off the car cleaning oil off of everything on my brand new car.
That was 5 years ago and the last time the car has gone to the dealer.

[venturaII]

The issue isn't the complexity of the motor - any reasonable wrench can handle the work itself. The problem is dealerships tend to attract mechanics that are...'less enthusiastic' about having chosen this career path, and as such, their work quite frequently tends to be shoddily done in order to make time or at least break even. Flat rate pay is an awful way to attract quality-oriented technicians. Private shops can go either way as well, but I think a shop that already has a reasonable reputation is likely to have better quality technicians. I'm reluctant to have the dealetership perform this recall not because of the difficulty of work, but because of the collateral effect on the rest of the car. Unfortunately there is no other option, even to just obtain the replacement springs alone.

[frsty_86]

Originally Posted by venturaII

The issue isn't the complexity of the motor - any reasonable wrench can handle the work itself. The problem is dealerships tend to attract mechanics that are...'less enthusiastic' about having chosen this career path, and as such, their work quite frequently tends to be shoddily done in order to make time or at least break even. Flat rate pay is an awful way to attract quality-oriented technicians. Private shops can go either way as well, but I think a shop that already has a reasonable reputation is likely to have better quality technicians. I'm reluctant to have the dealetership perform this recall not because of the difficulty of work, but because of the collateral effect on the rest of the car. Unfortunately there is no other option, even to just obtain the replacement springs alone.

My point still remains that I'll either end up with a new engine when I throw a fit because it blew up, or it will accelerate my plans to swap. I'm not trying to be hostile, rather just expressing it's probably not something most people need to be stressed out about.

What is the experience from other people with any other car (say, Ford or GM for example) with a recall for something major like this? I've never owned a vehicle with a recall. If 98 percent of those people had a positive experience where their issue was resolved without causing other problems, then why would this instance be any different?

[venturaII]

Well, if they figure out that you ignored a recall notice (once they actually have a solution in place and begin issuing them), I think your chances of a new motor resulting from any damage from the spring breaking would be basically zero.

[Gunman]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Yeah
My first and only oil change done at the dealer took 3 hours. That's because they double gasketted the oil filter.

I've done that myself on my Ranger, which was a show truck, cleaning that mess sucked.

[Gunman]

Originally Posted by frsty_86

What is the experience from other people with any other car (say, Ford or GM for example) with a recall for something major like this? I've never owned a vehicle with a recall. If 98 percent of those people had a positive experience where their issue was resolved without causing other problems, then why would this instance be any different?

I've shared earlier, in one of these threads...my 1988 Ranger had a piston come apart, while under warranty. It was my show truck toy, so the engine had been pulled, painted, detailed, and wiring rerouted, before this happened. The dealer pulled the engine, replaced the block, one head, piston, con rod, etc., and then let me take the engine to get repainted, before they put it back in. All under warranty, and I drove the truck another 40K miles, before selling it.

[frsty_86]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Well, if they figure out that you ignored a recall notice (once they actually have a solution in place and begin issuing them), I think your chances of a new motor resulting from any damage from the spring breaking would be basically zero.

I'm not ignoring the recall. I want to get it done ASAP. I'm saying that if the engine fails because of technician negligence, an engine replacement will be the next thing they get to fix. I'll drive that dealer loaner for two years if I have to.

[humfrz]

My oh my, what apprehension -

I'm sure the dealerships will be staffed by technicians that have been specifically trained in the procedure for changing out the valve springs.

I reckon we will see -


humfrz

[MuseChaser]

I like my dealership (Toyota), as I've said in many other posts. However, I've got to confess I have doubts similar to those expressed by some of the other posters in this thread. My dealership tried, unsuccessfully, to reseal my leaking cam plate. When I pulled it off myself after their second fail and replaced it w/ the Raceseng cover, I saw that they had used the wrong sealant and had overtightened the crap out of it before it cured, thereby forcing all of the sealant out of the critical areas. If a tech doesn't understand the purpose of a FIPG type of sealant, there's a TSB out for an incompatibility between this engine and the FIPG usually used by Toyota and the tech missed it... well... treating me well, charging fair prices, covering warranty issues without debate, and being willing to try more than once to correct a problem feels good and all, but none of that necessarily guarantees competency. I'm not saying it negates it, but if they can't seal a cam plate, why should I feel confident in their ability to replace a valve spring?

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by humfrz

My oh my, what apprehension -

I'm sure the dealerships will be staffed by technicians that have been specifically trained in the procedure for changing out the valve springs.

I reckon we will see -


humfrz

Subaru, yes. They'll have vastly more cars affected by this, and their techs work on this type of engine constantly. Toyota dealerships.. who knows. How many 86/FR-S do they really see/sell, especially in non-large-metro areas? Yes, the FSM is available to them. I've spent a lot of time in garages and have friends who are great mechanics. I am NOT a great mechanic. I need instructions. In my experience, lots of respected (not necessarily great, but much better than I) mechanics use the FSM for torque specs on engine stuff, clearances and specifications, etc., but almost never for procedures. Most of the guys I know laugh at me whenever I told them I followed the manual procedurally. Take it for what it's worth. Even here, we have examples of lots of guys who change spark plugs w/out lifting the engine per the manual. At what point does that attitude work, and at what point does it start to cause problems? It's different for everyone depending upon their skill level and understanding of the issues at hand. Obviously, changing spark plugs w/out lifting the engine is a FINE alternative.. and a BETTER alternative for those w/ small hands or lots of extensions, wobbles, and duct tape. Do we want Toyota techs who never work on Subaru engines going with their gut rather than the FSM when doing this recall? You KNOW some will, right?

[alan.chalkley]

Has anyone actually had this done yet , and would like to report how this journey has been?

[notout86]

Originally Posted by radroach

Video goes over this issue. Unfortunately I don't have a translation.

Whoa! If that dude was working on my engine I would insist that he wear an hair net.
Loved the sound I think he made to describe what a busted spring makes.