Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[kavanagh]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

Yep, Sebring Int'l Raceway, 3.7 mile course, very fast track.



Plus, I'm a fairly advanced driver and push the car HARD.

That makes damn good sense then.


Sent from a secret volcano base using trained sharks

[I<3Twisties]

How often (in terms of track days) should the diff and tranny oil be changed if running the motul oils?

[uncivilised]

hey guys

im using 225/45/17 RS3s on 17x8 wheels at the moment. the track i drive has short straights and mostly slow sharp corners. over all its a slow speed track.

my mods so far:

catless EL header
E85 tune
4.55 final drive
330mm BBK
-3 camber front, -1.5 camber rear
0 toe all round


im thinking of stepping up to a 245/40/17 RS3 on a 17x9 wheel (maybe 255/40/17 but it may be overkill)

knowing that 225/45/17 on 17x8 is proven to be quicker on fast tracks with long straights, could i benefit from using wider tires for a track like i described above?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by uncivilised

hey guys

im using 225/45/17 RS3s on 17x8 wheels at the moment. the track i drive has short straights and mostly slow sharp corners. over all its a slow speed track.

my mods so far:

catless EL header
E85 tune
4.55 final drive
330mm BBK
-3 camber front, -1.5 camber rear
0 toe all round


im thinking of stepping up to a 245/40/17 RS3 on a 17x9 wheel (maybe 255/40/17 but it may be overkill)

knowing that 225/45/17 on 17x8 is proven to be quicker on fast tracks with long straights, could i benefit from using wider tires for a track like i described above?

Probably. You could probably use more camber too, and a smaller BBK

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by I<3Twisties

How often (in terms of track days) should the diff and tranny oil be changed if running the motul oils?

UOA is the best way to determine that, but 15k is a pretty conservative interval. Some people do it every oil change, since the diff/trans fluids combined cost less than engine oil...

[uncivilised]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Probably. You could probably use more camber too, and a smaller BBK

Ill need to invest in adjustable rear control arms soon and run a bit more camber.

The bbk are on loan. Im doing some testing for a local company here.

Thanks again

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by THEmailman

They really only provide enough instructors for the novice group, but that seems to be pretty much par with any club...

That varies quite a bit, to the point that my local BMW club requires an instructor in the car with solo advanced students during the first session of each and every day. That group is strongly focused on driver instruction; part of that is safety-oriented, and part of it is who track-going BMW owners are as a group.

It's the for-profit groups that are loosest when it comes to putting instructors in the cars. As long as the rules are followed, giving the customer what he/she wants comes first, and for many drivers that simply means the opportunity to have some serious fun. Generally speaking, driver skill set improvement isn't the focus with those groups.

If being the best driver you can be is of interest, it may prove beneficial to seek out those clubs that emphasize instruction. Then find out who the most capable instructors are and find a way to get them in your car with you. After you've exhausted that avenue and you're ready to step up further, there are professional, gets-paid-to-drive race car drivers available that will introduce you to a level that you may not have realized existed. Some of those pros are available by the session at open-lapping events, allowing a driver to get an introduction to that level of instruction without having to rent him for a half day or a full day.

[AZP Installs]

NASA is for profit but is also one of the most safety and learning oriented programs.

Our AZP program actually has those pro-racing coaches in our classroom and available to the novice and advanced drivers for a few hot laps.

As you said instruction is key I'm an instructor for 10+ years and I still take out other instructors with me for further improvement.

Mike

[kavanagh]

+1 for NASA instruction and safety. Granted I have nothing to compare them to since they're the only organization my wife and I have driven with, but for $265 to get a two day event with four hours of classroom instruction plus a dedicated instructor for each of your 8 sessions, that's a damn good deal.


Sent from a secret volcano base using trained sharks

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

NASA is for profit but is also one of the most safety and learning oriented programs.

Definitely. NASA does an impressive job in every way.

[solidONE]

I'm curious what kind of advice veteran track day and racers would give a relative newb on skill development and when to start pushing limits with braking and throttle and steering.

My approach has been concentrating on being smooth with all inputs and familiarizing with track layout before pushing the limits of tire adheasion. Rather, slowly working up to pace. But... That's been the problem, progression for me has been slow if not nonexistent. Now, before you say 'hire a coach' I'd like to hear what you have to say about order of progression and what to concentrate on with each level of driving skill set development. And when should a newb begin to 'pooosh poooosh' without hurting skill development.

Also I think the 'don't worry about lap times' advice is bull. There is no way for me not to worry about lap times. Just not possible.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I'm curious what kind of advice veteran track day and racers would give a relative newb on skill development and when to start pushing limits with braking and throttle and steering.

My approach has been concentrating on being smooth with all inputs and familiarizing with track layout before pushing the limits of tire adheasion. Rather, slowly working up to pace. But... That's been the problem, progression for me has been slow if not nonexistent. Now, before you say 'hire a coach' I'd like to hear what you have to say about order of progression and what to concentrate on with each level of driving skill set development. And when should a newb begin to 'pooosh poooosh' without hurting skill development.

Also I think the 'don't worry about lap times' advice is bull. There is no way for me not to worry about lap times. Just not possible.

(not CSG Mike but here's my input)

First and most importantly, eyes up - you wont believe how much time you can gain by looking ahead; if you're in the braking zone, look at the apex, then as you're turning in, look at your track out point. You'll notice that you're driving smooths out considerably because you are PLANNING your corner vs reacting to what pops up in front of you, and you'll get onto the throttle a little sooner without even thinking about it, as you'll be focusing on getting OUT of the corner by the time you are turning IN to the corner. I can't tell you how many people I've seen just stare at the turn-in cone right before they turn in, or staring at the apex cone as they pass the apex.

Next, work on compressing braking zones - if you are threshold braking in the braking zone and have to back off the brake pressure to avoid slowing down too much, you are braking too early. Move your braking point later until you are on the brake hard until turn in.

(as you become more advanced, you can brake even LATER than that and trail brake into the corner, which will also help with rotation, but don't worry about that right now)

Reduce coasting time - Get off the gas and onto the brakes quickly - dont lift off the throttle, wait a second or two, and then get to the brake. If you have time to coast, you could have spent that time on throttle. If you have data or even just a Harry's lap timer and export onto a speed vs. time graph, you will see "plateaus" at the peaks, right before the braking zone. It should be a sharp acceleration than a sharp deceleration on the chart.

Other than that, just learning the lines, tips and tricks from someone who knows the track, working on increasing cornering speeds (getting back on throttle at the apex; are you still trying to scrub speed off after you are passing the apex? - probably carrying too much cornering speed. are you hard on the throttle right after turn in? - probably not carrying enough speed.) And yes, get a coach/instructor in the right seat, and have them get some solo laps and capture video/data to see where you can pick up time or how their lines and technique differs from yours.

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I'm curious what kind of advice veteran track day and racers would give a relative newb on skill development and when to start pushing limits with braking and throttle and steering.

My approach has been concentrating on being smooth with all inputs and familiarizing with track layout before pushing the limits of tire adheasion. Rather, slowly working up to pace. But... That's been the problem, progression for me has been slow if not nonexistent. Now, before you say 'hire a coach' I'd like to hear what you have to say about order of progression and what to concentrate on with each level of driving skill set development. And when should a newb begin to 'pooosh poooosh' without hurting skill development.

Also I think the 'don't worry about lap times' advice is bull. There is no way for me not to worry about lap times. Just not possible.

Actually, NASA and a few other groups do not allow lap timers in the lower run groups. I know at our events we aren't allowed to time folks due to insurance reasons.

As for pace, everyone is different, you should work up your pace slowly focusing on being smooth and comfortable.

Back when I started instructing, you had to run at least 4-8 days (2-4 weekends) in each run group at each track in order to progress, and that's only if you get signed off by (2) instructors. Now things are much more loose and they let folks progress up very quickly. So if your area has 2 or 3 tracks, you might be in Group 1 or Green Group for a whole season of tracking.

Also what I do is focus on a particular set of turns in a given session, where I just "throw away" the other areas of the track and really focus on that one spot.

-Mike Paisan


Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001.
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[Wyattkb]

@AZP Installs

I just did my first NASA track day 2 weeks ago. I was in HPDE 1 on Saturday and graduated to HPDE 2 for my Sunday sessions.

Seems as if all the "enthusiasts" that were in HPDE 1 on Saturday moved up to HPDE 2 by Sunday. So things must have sped up quite a bit.


To be honest I don't want to move out of HPDE 2 until I at least do every track in the NASA SW region and learn to properly pass.

HPDE 3 and 4 gets crazy with those high HP cars and passing.


@solidONE

Don't worry about lap times, meaning, don't have harrys lap timer sitting on your dash trying to race your last lap time. You will do horrible. Instead keep it running and at the end of your session review the data and learn from it. Have a notebook where you can jot notes about the lap, how it felt, tire pressure, etc.

Instead drive hard but keep your mind thinking such as, did that corner feel smooth? How was the entry/exit? Is this line correct? With my first track day I actually left my car in 3rd gear for 2 whole sessions just so I could focus on the line and braking points without having to deal with downshifts and heel/toe. After I knew the line I then added downshifting into parts of the track, followed by experimenting with my brake zones by braking later/harder/etc until it felt right to me.



I am by no means an experienced track driver but that is just my 2 cents from what I learned from my 2 days on track.