Branka: Country Road Specialist

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

Very, very nice. If you don't mind my asking, what did the paintwork set you back? These damn rock chips are shit. Haven't been up your way in while, Is TXdot still using chip seal on the FM/RR roads? I've been down the "sisters" countless times on a bike and had rocks hit my knuckles and upper fingers hard enough to break the skin through gloves.

Yeah, I wish I'd done whole car PPF and ceramic coating when I bought it instead of waiting 2 years. Some of the rock damage isn't repairable at all, but most of it was fixable. It wasn't cheap though, you're looking at $2k-$4k depending on coating choice and how much damage there is to be fixed.

I went to the track today, but didn't go as hard as I usually do. First time on the RS4s on track and I don't think I'm a fan of them. They definitely grip, but they feel like they want to wash out and I'd say my confidence was much higher especially in blind corners on AD08Rs. Car is somewhat understeer prone now and I'm not sure why, might be due to wider tires and a need for more front camber, so I may need to do some suspension tuning. Front LCAs might happen sooner than originally planned.

[Tristor]

It's been awhile since I updated. Since the last time I posted about my time on track, I've been on three track days, including today. The first two were again counterclockwise configuration at H2R, but I had the benefit of some instruction this go around and that really helped. I'm more comfortable with that configuration, but the whole time I was really not enjoying these Hankook RS4s.

Today the track was back in clockwise configuration which I'm much more familiar/confident on. I pushed it hard and just kept getting severe understeer in several corners and washing out despite not even carrying that much speed (I was 6-7 seconds off my normal pace with AD08Rs following a similar rhythm). I got pretty frustrated and really felt like these tires weren't doing it for me, but I asked for some advice around the clubhouse and got lucky enough that one of the more competitive Miata drivers was there and he exclusively runs Hankook RS4s. He suggested my issue was the RS4s like a /lot/ less pressure than the AD08Rs. I pulled 3psi out of all of them and went back out and it was a night and day difference.

Despite a pretty significant improvement, I still am quite a bit slower (about 3 seconds) right now with the Hankook RS4s. I'm not sure how much of that is lack of driver confidence on my part and how much is tire difference. Knowing what I do now, I'd like to see if I can't go back out next weekend, start off with a lower cold pressure and then really push it. I was playing it a bit safe today because of the temperatures as well, I didn't get out early enough to be on track before it got hot.

For reference, historically I've ran 31psi cold in my AD08Rs, with great results. I'm finding that the RS4s want around 28psi cold. The RS4s grip really well, but they have a very weird "feel" to them, which makes me not sure if they're going to hold or not, where with the AD08Rs I was certain of the hold. I think I could take more aggressive lines with the RS4s, but I'm giving time up on lack of driver confidence due to difference in tire feel. Definitely something I need to work to overcome.

I'm super-tempted to just go back to the AD08Rs, but I feel like there's something I can learn by pressing on with the RS4s and learning to drive them. I think there's a lot of finesse to working with different tire compounds that I haven't developed yet. So I'm hoping just more seat time and I will start feeling what I need.

[Code Monkey]

Do you have a tire pyrometer?

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by Code Monkey

Do you have a tire pyrometer?

Hey, sorry I never answered this. Yes, I do have a tire pyrometer and I know how to use it. However it's very difficult to self read (3x points per tire), which means I often skip using it unless I have a helper in the pits that can read/record coming in hot.

I haven't really updated this thread in awhile, I've just been doing regular maintenance and getting on track as much as possible. I'm very likely replacing my front braking system with CSG Spec Brembos with flat face rotors soon, to bring down noise and increase available thermal mass. I recently installed the Verus Engineering transmission tunnel cover.

[Code Monkey]

Don't overthink it. Plenty of time to do measurements yourself. If you think you are short on time just do the fronts and run the same tire pressure in the rear. In my experience, I have always been within 1-2 psi between the front and the rear.

[Tristor]

Well, it became time to do something about brakes and temps. So I have a bunch of stuff planned and parts have arrived. I was going to do everything tomorrow but I got head start today and already installed a new set of CSG Spec Brembos w/ BM4 caliper upgrade and CSG Spec C2 pads. Unfortunately, in the process I found that the hard line on the front driver's side was damaged and disconnecting my old BBK caused it to split above the fitting. I am headed to a shop to make me a new hard line in the morning so I can replace it, I already snaky no braky to get it out.

If everything goes well, I'll also be putting in TrackSpec T1 hood vents tomorrow as well and doing my necessary transmission service.

Then if I can get it all done I will take car for another alignment and go out on track next weekend, which will be my last weekend before more work travel to speak at more conferences :/

[Tristor]

Well I was able to fix everything yesterday, but I didn't get anything but the brakes done. New hardline was made and installed and everything is great. Bled the brakes, did the low-speed coating removal process, bled them again, and then bedded them in. I'm loving these CSG Spec Brembos. They're nearly perfectly silent compared to the noise factories that were my AP Racing Sprint BBK.

I'll be reconditioning and selling the AP Racing Sprint BBK, as it is still in great condition and perfect for someone's dedicated AutoX car.

[Tristor]

Just a quick dump of some photos from the install and updated photos of how she sits helpfully taken in a CostCo parking lot



AP Racing Brakes out




CSG Spec Brembos with the BM4 caliper upgrade in



Pesky hardline that broke on drivers front, you can see where it is damaged above where the fitting sits when attached.



Wheel money shot of the Brembos through my Apex ARC-8s w/ CSG Spec lug nuts






Just pictures all around of how she sits. Wheels flushed out with custom billet spacers from Motorsport Tech, which are now helpfully welded directly to the wheels thanks to heat from my brakes on track, lol

[Tristor]

I did a thing, finally got around to installing the Trackspec T1 hood louvers. Yes, I know they're slightly off center. I swear I measured like 5 times before cutting, c'est la vie.





I have photos of the whole process, I might do a DIY thread. Other than it ended up having one a bit off-center, my cuts worked really well and everything went better than expected especially considering I had to cut through ceramic, PPF, and then the hood, and didn't want to overly damage any of it. Everything fit on my first go around test-fitting, my cuts were nearly perfect with the Dremel. Gotta let the speed do the cutting, minimal pressure.

[Tristor]

On another topic of interest to me, I've started buying new tools. For awhile now I've been primarily using a mixture of tools I bought at Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, and from Amazon. The Tekton stuff I have is generally really well made and works great, but I'm not that fond of their ratchets. My favorite ratchet right now is a Gearwrench, but it's kind of meh too.

I've been spending the last 4 months doing research on hand tools... a lot of hours, probably several hundred at this point. With that I have bought a mixture of tools from various Japanese and German tool brands, such as pliers from Knipex, ratchets from Stahlwille and Nepros, wrenches from Asahi, sockets and ratchets from Wera, screwdrivers from Wiha and PB Swiss, and some measurement tools from Mitutoyo.

The first of the bunch arrived today, a skeletonized offset metric open-ended wrench set from Asahi. I'm super stoked by the quality and I can't wait for the rest of the stuff to arrive. Not really specific to the build thread, but it'll be really interesting to use Japanese tools on my Japanese car.

Soon, I'm going to figure out storage, it's looking like the Germans may have me covered there too as the Festool/Tanos Systainer system looks really epic. Next up, I want to buy new cordless power tools so I can centralize on a single brand. I'm trying to decide between Milwaukee and Ryobi right now.

Just a sort of tangentially related topic, since I do all of the work on my car myself and I've also been volunteering to help out others in the local FT86 community (helped a guy do a clutch and TOB on Monday for instance). Now that I'm really heavily using them, the deficiencies of lesser tools are becoming apparent.

Not sure if there's a good place other than the GarageJournal forums to talk about tools, but if folks are wondering what I use to work on things, this is as good a place as any to put things. If you're just starting out, I can't recommend Tekton hand tools enough, but I think there's definitely a place for finer things too.

[WC-BRZ]

Are you able to share some more details regarding the noise from the AP Sprint kit? I thought noise was mostly a function of race compound brake pads more than anything else.

The only other complaint I've heard about the AP Sprint kit is that not having any dust boots makes it an issue for year-round driving and likely requires frequent servicing. When you took off your kit, what did the pistons look like?

Anyway, not familiar with the noise so please share your experience

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by WC-BRZ

Are you able to share some more details regarding the noise from the AP Sprint kit? I thought noise was mostly a function of race compound brake pads more than anything else.

The only other complaint I've heard about the AP Sprint kit is that not having any dust boots makes it an issue for year-round driving and likely requires frequent servicing. When you took off your kit, what did the pistons look like?

Anyway, not familiar with the noise so please share your experience

Well, personally, I was only sort of bothered by it. It definitely has a bit of a cringe factor especially when folks make a comment at a stop light or a parking lot meet. But, let me be perfectly straight, they are fucking loud. Like, really loud. Like loud enough that if you were straight piped it wouldn't matter because you'd hear your brakes over your exhaust loud. I upgraded because I needed more thermal mass which needed a larger rotor, but as a part of the process I wanted to go quieter (especially since my girlfriend hates my car and my neighbors hate me because of my brakes).


While it is true that generally its the pad compound selected and the quality of bedding process that determines noise, that's not true for J-hooked rotors. AP Racing does offer some BBKs which use modified slots rather than J-hooks, but J-hooks are the only option for kits sold in the US from Essex. J-hooks themselves are the primary factory in the vast majority of the brake noise originating from the AP Racing Sprint BBK. There's a few other things which factor into it, but it's not worth delving into. Main thing to understand is that it doesn't matter which pad compound you choose, the AP Racing Sprint BBK is loud... even on Carbotech 1521s and Ferodo DS2500 as a few "street" compounds I tried. I got used to the noise personally, but I'm not going to sugar-coat how bad it is. The folks at the garage I rent a lift from (you can see it in some photos) would know I was coming from 3 blocks away due to the stop light I always had to stop at and then from me braking to make the entry drive. I was always "pre-announced" anywhere I went.



Regarding the absence of a dust boot and serviceability, it's not really a problem to be honest. I live in South Texas, there's no salt on the roads, and I wash my car almost weekly. Basically it's a non-issue for me. While they are dirty coming off, after cleaning them off with brake clean it's clear the pistons are in good operational condition after pretty hard use and there is not even a need to rebuild the calipers yet. Consider that race calipers are usually built with the expectation of being rebuilt every season (roughly every year), so I'm actually pretty impressed with how well the AP Racing calipers held up. The two-piece rotor design also significantly assists in reducing unsprung mass, and the J-hooks make it have massive initial bite, so there's some advantages. But all-in-all, for my purposes it wasn't quite cutting the mustard. For someone doing significant amounts of AutoX in a class which allows a BBK this would be a great BBK to pair with some Carbotech AX6 or similar, but for serious road track use the Sprint BBK doesn't have enough thermal mass.




That's my 2 cents, after nearly 30 events on a Sprint BBK.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by Tristor

While it is true that generally its the pad compound selected and the quality of bedding process that determines noise, that's not true for J-hooked rotors. J-hooks themselves are the primary factory in the vast majority of the brake noise originating from the AP Racing Sprint BBK. There's a few other things which factor into it, but it's not worth delving into. Main thing to understand is that it doesn't matter which pad compound you choose, the AP Racing Sprint BBK is loud...

...the J-hooks make it have massive initial bite, so there's some advantages. But all-in-all, for my purposes it wasn't quite cutting the mustard. For someone doing significant amounts of AutoX in a class which allows a BBK this would be a great BBK to pair with some Carbotech AX6 or similar, but for serious road track use the Sprint BBK doesn't have enough thermal mass.

This just isn't true. I'm sure plenty of people will back me up on this one. I've used the Sprint kit with and without the J-Hook rotors. There is only slightly more noise with the j hook rotors but there is no increased squealing. It's just a scuffing noise that is pretty quiet. Any pad squeal will come down to pad compound and the bedding procedure.

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by Pat

This just isn't true. I'm sure plenty of people will back me up on this one. I've used the Sprint kit with and without the J-Hook rotors. There is only slightly more noise with the j hook rotors but there is no increased squealing. It's just a scuffing noise that is pretty quiet. Any pad squeal will come down to pad compound and the bedding procedure.

Hey man, saying "this just isn't true" comes off as unnecessarily combative. You're basically calling me a liar, since I'm sharing my actual personal experiences. I am no liar, sir. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt though, because you're a good knowledgeable poster and I respect that.


So please, inform me what pad compounds I should try? I'm happy to pass that information along to the person who buys the kit from me and to report back their experiences. For me, it's not an issue of bedding or compound. I tried multiple compounds, and just in case I was somehow messing up bedding I bought pre-bedded rotor rings w/ matching new pads twice. There are many possible variables, but the best I could isolate it, it came down to rotor design. Miraculously, after switching to my new BBK on the same compound I ran down on my Sprint BBK, my noise problems are basically eliminated (there's an expected amount of noise due to it being a race compound at low speed stops).


I'm open to new information and learning new things, but my experiences are not unique, and they're certainly true, every word of it. So please, refrain from calling into question my character in my own thread, it's just not necessary.