Advanced driving.

[paulca]

Good:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAvJ6N2oDdI[/ame]

Bad:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeqKWPE5jYw"]How To Change Gears In A Car EASILY! (Basics For Beginners) - YouTube[/ame]
I mean the very first thing he does is drop the handbrake. FAILED. The last thing you do is drop the handbrake before moving off.


Actually if you spend a good 20 minutes browsing YouTube with the search "How to change gear" you will find quite quickly that the videos from the USA are the only ones where people do things differently and arguably wrong. In fairness they are usually done by "some bloke" 'and stuff' as opposed to a real driving instructor. I have found videos from driving instructors from the UK, Ireland, Europe, Austrailia and New Zealand and they all teach the same basic method to learners. Then you find the US videos and it's all stuff that would get you failed in the other mentioned countries. No problem in the US as nobody will fail for doing these things as there is no test. If the US did decide to enforce a test to be able to drive "stick" I don't doubt they would look at what other countries are doing and you'd end up having to learn just like we do.

Does it not sound like maybe as the USA don't tend to drive manual that you might not know what you are doing? To me it sounds conceivable. You don't have any official recommendations, you most likely don't have road safety boards doing research and you don't have any official driving instructors for manual. It's mostly just ad-hoc, made up, passed down nonsense. "My dad/mate/mom taught me this way" or "I learned on the Internet"

Sure when you get into sports driving all the videos on rev matching and what not are fairly interesting, but my point still stands that you don't need to do this to learn to drive manual. Nobody else in the world learns this way. It seems you guys skip the basics or learn them really badly then jump on to fancy rev matching and pedal dancing and I'd expect not learning how the clutch actually works for you in the process. Just my opinion from afar.

You may be able to smoothly rev match down the box, but if you can't change gear in the internationally accepted, standard, basic fashion, then you don't yet know how to drive or use the clutch properly.

I know 17 year old girls and 90 year old grannies who drive "stick" and can shift up and down the gearbox all day without a lurch and no rev matching in sight. It's all just clutch control. Something you guys seem to skip or consider it too much work for the clutch when that is exactly what it it was designed for.

[jebuwh]

What are you even trying to say?

That no one knows how to drive a manual but you?

What is your actual point. Summed up in one sentence please.

[serialk11r]

His point is clearly that excess clutch use is good driving

[paulca]

My point is, when advising newbies you should be advising them the same way the rest of the world teaches their new drivers.

It's not how "I" drive. I use a range of techniques. It is about how the majority of the world beyond this forum drives. It's about how formal driver education teaches people how to drive in the rest of the world beyond the states. In countries where the vast majority of cars are manual and manual cars require a specific manual test to legally drive them. That's a large portion of the world to argue against, so don't point the finger at me.

I can guarantee you that if you stopped 100 random cars here on the roads and asked they if they rev match when down shifting, 95% of them would say, "Do what? Why would you do that?"

This is not because rev matching is right and 95% of people here can't drive, it's because rev matching is not required to drive properly. It's not that rev matching is wrong either, it's an advanced technique that you 'can' use if you really want to and has some advantages particularly at higher paced driving, but it is NOT required and NOT taught to learners anywhere other than these type of forums in the US. It has risks, particularly if done wrong where as normal clutch shifts are hard to screw up.

Shifting without rev matching is NOT excessive clutch use. I'm fairly sure if you read any car manual you will find that it says to release the clutch progressively and probably doesn't mention rev matching at all. I haven't read all car manuals personally. I can tell you that the pedals in almost all modern cars are deliberately laid out so that it is difficult to use both pedals at the same time. That is why the throttle is a short and low pedal, the brake high. That design is different today in road cars than it is in race cars, rally cars and older cars where rev matching was required.

I think it is because you don't understand how to change gear without rev matching that you don't really gather how little clutch slip and clutch load is required to shift smoothly without rev matching.

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by paulca

Good:

Bad:

I mean the very first thing he does is drop the handbrake. FAILED. The last thing you do is drop the handbrake before moving off.


Actually if you spend a good 20 minutes browsing YouTube with the search "How to change gear" you will find quite quickly that the videos from the USA are the only ones where people do things differently and arguably wrong. In fairness they are usually done by "some bloke" 'and stuff' as opposed to a real driving instructor. I have found videos from driving instructors from the UK, Ireland, Europe, Austrailia and New Zealand and they all teach the same basic method to learners. Then you find the US videos and it's all stuff that would get you failed in the other mentioned countries. No problem in the US as nobody will fail for doing these things as there is no test. If the US did decide to enforce a test to be able to drive "stick" I don't doubt they would look at what other countries are doing and you'd end up having to learn just like we do.

Does it not sound like maybe as the USA don't tend to drive manual that you might not know what you are doing? To me it sounds conceivable. You don't have any official recommendations, you most likely don't have road safety boards doing research and you don't have any official driving instructors for manual. It's mostly just ad-hoc, made up, passed down nonsense. "My dad/mate/mom taught me this way" or "I learned on the Internet"

Sure when you get into sports driving all the videos on rev matching and what not are fairly interesting, but my point still stands that you don't need to do this to learn to drive manual. Nobody else in the world learns this way. It seems you guys skip the basics or learn them really badly then jump on to fancy rev matching and pedal dancing and I'd expect not learning how the clutch actually works for you in the process. Just my opinion from afar.

You may be able to smoothly rev match down the box, but if you can't change gear in the internationally accepted, standard, basic fashion, then you don't yet know how to drive or use the clutch properly.

I know 17 year old girls and 90 year old grannies who drive "stick" and can shift up and down the gearbox all day without a lurch and no rev matching in sight. It's all just clutch control. Something you guys seem to skip or consider it too much work for the clutch when that is exactly what it it was designed for.

In neither of those videos does it show what to do when you need to drop 2 gears, while maintaining speed in order to place the car in the powerband to execute a pass. You need to rev match to the lower gear by blipping the throttle or otherwise you'll slow down.

In those videos, it shows rev matching whether you say it isn't, except in this case, you're matching the gear ratio that's closest to the engine idle speed.

That is still technically rev matching.

[Propaganda]

Guys. Listen. I'm right. Bye.

What if everyone else is doing it wrong? Think about that... Mind blown.


Have a fabulous day.

[Corradooo]

Originally Posted by paulca

My point is, when advising newbies you should be advising them the same way the rest of the world teaches their new drivers.

It's not how "I" drive. I use a range of techniques. It is about how the majority of the world beyond this forum drives. It's about how formal driver education teaches people how to drive in the rest of the world beyond the states. In countries where the vast majority of cars are manual and manual cars require a specific manual test to legally drive them. That's a large portion of the world to argue against, so don't point the finger at me.

I can guarantee you that if you stopped 100 random cars here on the roads and asked they if they rev match when down shifting, 95% of them would say, "Do what? Why would you do that?"

This is not because rev matching is right and 95% of people here can't drive, it's because rev matching is not required to drive properly. It's not that rev matching is wrong either, it's an advanced technique that you 'can' use if you really want to and has some advantages particularly at higher paced driving, but it is NOT required and NOT taught to learners anywhere other than these type of forums in the US. It has risks, particularly if done wrong where as normal clutch shifts are hard to screw up.

Shifting without rev matching is NOT excessive clutch use. I'm fairly sure if you read any car manual you will find that it says to release the clutch progressively and probably doesn't mention rev matching at all. I haven't read all car manuals personally. I can tell you that the pedals in almost all modern cars are deliberately laid out so that it is difficult to use both pedals at the same time. That is why the throttle is a short and low pedal, the brake high. That design is different today in road cars than it is in race cars, rally cars and older cars where rev matching was required.

I think it is because you don't understand how to change gear without rev matching that you don't really gather how little clutch slip and clutch load is required to shift smoothly without rev matching.

He said summed up in one sentence... You can't even follow simple directions, who is going to trust your advanced driving technique? Especially since all us Americans are doing it wrong, but everyone else in the world does it exactly like you, and only people who drive like you, without rev matching or double clutching, and only people who ride out their clutch are driving correctly.

You should write a book. Telling everyone in the world how they are wrong, and don't know how to drive. Or better yet, you should be the world spokesperson. Since you're so well versed on the subject of rewriting the same dreadfully long 5 paragraphs over and over and over.


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[Corradooo]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

He trying to justify he's right... but 2 wrongs don't make a right... however 3 lefts make a right.

Lmao I always say 2 wrongs don't make a right. But 3 rights equal a left hahaha


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[Corradooo]

Originally Posted by sklimo

Maybe he's the Queen

Def a queen, I dunno about THE queen, but a queen of some sort... You can tell because everyone else is wrong, and they just keep arguing the same point, no matter how many facts are presented to dispel it. I'm right and your wrong. Get rekt m8.


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[Davev]

People need to quit worrying about how the rest of the world shifts and what their religion is. Who gives a flying...

[IloveBaldEagles]

My car is totaled. God damn it OP. You totaled my car!

[Davev]

Originally Posted by Davev

People need to quit worrying about how the rest of the world shifts and what their religion is. Who gives a flying...

That's some good advice.

[Corradooo]

Originally Posted by Davev

People need to quit worrying about how the rest of the world shifts and what their religion is. Who gives a flying...

Don't you ever tell me how to live my life... EVER.


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[Corradooo]

"This driving is so advanced, were going to completely strip it of everything, so there's no thought involved, because that's how things work. The more advanced, the less you actually need to do and/or think."

Ahhhh yes... Cubanbee..


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