Am I stupid if I don't buy a Civic Si?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

If you need convincing to buy an 86, it's the wrong car for you.

There was a time when my mk6 GTI was putting down faster laptimes than my FRS at one of the tracks I go to. I still knew which one I'd rather drive and it wasn't even close to be honest.

If you prefer the Civic, there's nothing wrong with that. Plenty of reasons to prefer it. Buy one and go be happy, you have our blessing.

[motrek]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

It's not the handling. It's how it makes you feel. The feedback through the seat and steering wheel, the mechanical rawness. I don't know how an Si feels. Never driven one. But that's how the 86 makes me feel. It's just the delicacy and intuitiveness of all the inputs and responses that get me. The speed can always be addressed. But I feel like that purity can't be put into a car. It usually comes with it or it doesn't.

Thanks for this comment, this was probably the one that speaks the most to me. I'm still ~30% on buying the car, which is pretty high, considering how many alternatives there are. I suppose if I did ultimately buy it, "I just like it" would have to be the justification. And I do like it. And I do really dislike the Civic. (Which isn't really fair to the Civic but god, why did they have to make the new ones so ugly. And there's nothing novel or interesting about driving a Honda Civic. I see probably 50-100 of the new ones just driving around town for 20 minutes.)

[DandoX]

What I think may help is if you list what is important to you by priority, that may help you realize what you really want.

Speed and comfort are not the highlights. The 86 can't really compete with the practicality and easy quickness of the SI as well as the resale value.

The 86 is typically a vehicle that is purchased more on feeling and passion. I've been thinking of getting an SI for the wife but never once considered it for me, its just not my thing.

When your on backroads or just daily driving and safely get a little bit of tail out action, there is no civic that can give you that level of fun at normal speeds. If your the sort of person that doesn't appeal to then 86 probably isn't the vehicle for you. When I test drove an FRS for the first time I knew I was going to buy it right away. Its a feeling that is hard to describe but you know. If you don't get that then it may not be the right fit.

If your gonna get a civic as your main do all car, double down and go type-r.

[motrek]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

exactly

Thanks for this video.

"I'm flooring it right now and the Sprinter van behind me is... keeping up??"

Yeah. As a driver, it seems important to me for a "driver's car" to show some urgency when you press the accelerator. Not to get owned by a newer Accord or Camry in a straight line. :/

[bcj]

The 86 chassis and shocks are going to be more solid (bounce you around) more than most other retail cars available.
It was purposely designed that way to keep the car attached to the road rather than floating around and being vaguely random with control inputs.

I knew that i needed the 86 before I test drove it. Not been disappointed.
On vacation I took it out on Point Reyes and I think the road conditions turned the milkshake I had for lunch into butter.
That's become my reference for rough road conditions.
Everything since has been smooth as glass comparatively.

I bought an '84 Civic S new for $7400 way back when. It was a nice car and did what I needed it to.
Wasn't really what I wanted, but the closest you could get in a light car then other than Miata. Those had unrealistic cargo space for a DD.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by motrek

Thanks for this video.

"I'm flooring it right now and the Sprinter van behind me is... keeping up??"

Yeah. As a driver, it seems important to me for a "driver's car" to show some urgency when you press the accelerator. Not to get owned by a newer Accord or Camry in a straight line. :/

Are you open to used? Whats your budget? Another fun to dollars car is Fiesta ST...

[motrek]

Originally Posted by DandoX

What I think may help is if you list what is important to you by priority, that may help you realize what you really want.

Speed and comfort are not the highlights. The 86 can't really compete with the practicality and easy quickness of the SI as well as the resale value.

The 86 is typically a vehicle that is purchased more on feeling and passion. I've been thinking of getting an SI for the wife but never once considered it for me, its just not my thing.

When your on backroads or just daily driving and safely get a little bit of tail out action, there is no civic that can give you that level of fun at normal speeds. If your the sort of person that doesn't appeal to then 86 probably isn't the vehicle for you. When I test drove an FRS for the first time I knew I was going to buy it right away. Its a feeling that is hard to describe but you know. If you don't get that then it may not be the right fit.

If your gonna get a civic as your main do all car, double down and go type-r.

Good point.

1. I'm single, no wife, no kids. I don't need or want a big car. Right now my old BMW 3-series feels too big and heavy for one person. I appreciate that I can drive around 2-3 passengers once in a while but I can live without that. I also like lower cars. So, small, low, and lightweight are priorities.

2. It will be my only car and my daily driver, so I need it to be practical to some degree. To me, that means a useful amount of storage space, and comfortable on longer road trips, i.e., a cabin that isn't too loud and a ride that isn't too harsh. (You might say "hey that's not a sports car" but I've been in sports cars that are pretty quiet and smooth, again, e.g., Porsche 911s seem pretty nice.)

3. Driving around town, I do like turning, accelerating, and braking harder than average. I figure, what's the point of getting a higher-performance car if you don't like doing that. So definitely I want the car to show some urgency when I hit the accelerator. When I mash the accelerator in my ~200 horsepower BMW that weighs 3200 lbs, it's a kick in the pants. When I mash the accelerator in a ~200 horsepower 86 that weighs 2700 lbs, it seems like almost nothing happens. I don't understand why not but it's disappointing. (Edit: Well, something does happen in the 86, namely, the cabin gets so loud that you have to pause the conversation you're having with your passenger.)

4. I want something that I can occasionally track and have it be fun. I haven't tracked my BMW because I'm sure it would be kinda stupid. The car is just too big and heavy. I'm sure it could do fairly well, but it would protest the entire way, and that's not fun to me.

So, cars I've been thinking about are ideally the 86 (seems like it satisfies most priorities and I like how they look), Civic (again, don't like how they look or how ubiquitous they are), GTI (don't want another German car though), and a Mini (yet another German car though). Edit: Also considering a WRX.

[motrek]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

Are you open to used? Whats your budget? Another fun to dollars car is Fiesta ST...

I've bought used all my life but end up spending a ton on maintenance, I think it would be nice (and maybe not that much more expensive) to buy a new car for once. Considering that I'm looking at the 86 and the Civic Si, my budget is centered around $25k MSRP. (That means no Civic Type R.) I know Fiestas get good reviews these days but I have had horrible experiences with Fords in the past and swore that I'd never do that again.

[sachu]

get a 370Z or a Mustang GT.

[TommyW]

For your only car I'd get the Honda.

[Sapphireho]

Originally Posted by motrek

(You might say "hey that's not a sports car" but I've been in sports cars that are pretty quiet and smooth, again, e.g., Porsche 911s seem pretty nice.)

OT, but the modern 911 is a 3500 pound Grand Tourer. Nothing like my 1977 2400 pound 911.

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by motrek

Thanks for this comment, this was probably the one that speaks the most to me. I'm still ~30% on buying the car, which is pretty high, considering how many alternatives there are. I suppose if I did ultimately buy it, "I just like it" would have to be the justification. And I do like it. And I do really dislike the Civic. (Which isn't really fair to the Civic but god, why did they have to make the new ones so ugly. And there's nothing novel or interesting about driving a Honda Civic. I see probably 50-100 of the new ones just driving around town for 20 minutes.)

No worries. The other thing that works against this car is you need to do things to it in order for it to come alive, *in my opinion*. The stock tires and exhaust need to go. I put a Corsa exhaust on mine (youtube that one) and the wail is just intoxicating. Theatrics - the car sounds faster. Sticky Michelin PSS helped. Stock tires are pathetic and scary. Lowering it improved looks (don't know about ride quality). And this car lives north of 5000 rpm. If you're cruising in 4th at 2000 rpm and you floor it (you shouldn't), nothing is gonna happen. If you're at 5000 rpm, the car is so responsive and lunges forward at the slightest throttle application. That's kind of what has to be understood about this car. The fun begins at 5000-6000 rpm. One of the most memorable drives I've had, surprisingly, was just driving on the highway at around 5000-6000 rpm, making my way through slower traffic in 4th and 5th. Exhaust screaming, car reacting instantly to the smallest inputs. I had a huge grin on my face. I still redline it daily on the on-ramps. Keep in mind, mine has a lot of suspension/transmission/diff bushings and inserts so I feel everything and the car roars. Definitely not quiet and not for those headache days. If you want a more subdued driving experience, try shifting at 1800-2000 rpm. It makes surprisingly quiet and smooth progress. I had an R56 Cooper S before this, and that car was just 2500-4500 rpm lol, that's it. The rest was boredom and empty space. So you got that boost rush that was short lived, whereas with this car you revel in the 7400 rpm crescendo.

[motrek]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

OT, but the modern 911 is a 3500 pound Grand Tourer. Nothing like my 1977 2400 pound 911.

The Porsche I've ridden around in most is a mid-2000s that looks like it weighs around 3100 lbs. I suppose a lot of that could be sound-deadening material but that doesn't really speak to why it rides smoothly on public roads and also crushes it on a track...

[motrek]

Originally Posted by sachu

get a 370Z or a Mustang GT.

370Z seems interesting, but even less practical than the 86 (no rear seats), and also every review I've read says they're a pain to drive fast (unless it's in a straight line) since they're so heavy...