SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[ChrisV]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

Your want to believe is definitely strong

I am arranging to get my hands on a set to tear apart to see where the physical discrepancy is.

Great, until you have something that disputes the measurements taken by two separate people on two different sets of equipment, not to mention direct confirmation by the manufacturer that their bodies are OEM replicas, please stop acting and saying that you know anything for certain.

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by ChrisV

Great, until you have something that disputes the measurements taken by two separate people on two different sets of equipment, not to mention direct confirmation by the manufacturer that their bodies are OEM replicas, please stop acting and saying that you know anything for certain.

Right, right...."no talk of the world is round", huh?
Shall I take evolutionism off the table as well?
How about I lock in the my television to FOX News, while we are at it?

[ChrisV]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

Right, right...."no talk of the world is round", huh?
Shall I take evolutionism off the table as well?
How about I lock in the my television to FOX News, while we are at it?

Whatever man, you want to be some internet smart guy against people who've actually held these parts in their hands, go for it. If it makes you feel special, and you need that in your life, god bless and I'm sorry.

Can you stop crapping up the thread now?

[solort]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

Right, right...."no talk of the world is round", huh?
Shall I take evolutionism off the table as well?
How about I lock in the my television to FOX News, while we are at it?

Put up the money for a protest at a National Solo event and let the protest committee decide. It will be like a SCOTUS ruling.

Camber envy is a bitch...

[itzmik3]

well that was fun to read through lol

but in all honestly @ChrisV you telling @simpleisbest to "stop acting and saying that you know anything for certain" goes both ways. unless you are a rep for koni or the engineer who was in charge of the design for the koni full replacements, then by all means go ahead and preach that the koni is an exact 1 for 1 OEM replacement.

however in the end, it doesn't matter if the variances are off by 1mm or even 1 micron since now you are getting a competitive advantage.

in my eyes you guys both don't know so you guys are both entitled to your opinions

just my 2 cents.

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by solort

Put up the money for a protest at a National Solo event and let the protest committee decide. It will be like a SCOTUS ruling.

Camber envy is a bitch...

I would prefer to make the data public first before Nats.

While I am not afraid of forking up the cash for any justified protest, just doing it to prove a point and waste other peoples trip out there is not my thing.

[Jawnathin]

simpleisbest isn't thread crapping, he is asking a reasonable question.

If the Konis full replacements are based on exact OEM specifications, then they should provide the same amount of camber as the OEM part. If the amount of camber does differ from the OEM strut, then something is different about the Konis which raises questions about their legality.

As it stands, it is premature to call them illegal and I don't expect a protest to hold up without some type of proof that they differ from OEM specs. He said he is going to acquire a strut and test it himself and I'm looking forward to what he finds out. It would be beneficial to the community to understand what parts are legal and what are not.

[solort]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

I would prefer to make the data public first before Nats.

While I am not afraid of forking up the cash for any justified protest, just doing it to prove a point and waste other peoples trip out there is not my thing.

Waiting till Nationals would not be fair to a lot of people. But address it with a protest at a tour or pro is what you need to do if you want to lay it to rest.. I know of another protest with another stock car and camber allowances that will be handled that way for clarification. Speculation clarifies nothing. But it is just a suggestion...

And I am getting almost -2 with stock struts and 2 legal camber bolts. There are manufacturers tolerances and build tolerances in each vehicle ( as well as different manufacturers of the stock parts that may have slight tolerance differences but within manufacturers specs that are legal since they come on the car.

[ChrisV]

Originally Posted by Jawnathin

simpleisbest isn't thread crapping, he is asking a reasonable question.

If the Konis full replacements are based on exact OEM specifications, then they should provide the same amount of camber as the OEM part. If the amount of camber does differ from the OEM strut, then something is different about the Konis which raises questions about their legality.

As it stands, it is premature to call them illegal and I don't expect a protest to hold up without some type of proof that they differ from OEM specs. He said he is going to acquire a strut and test it himself and I'm looking forward to what he finds out. It would be beneficial to the community to understand what parts are legal and what are not.

I'm not a Koni engineer, but I went right to the NA Motorsports Manager for Koni to ask because I wanted to be legal. He certainly wants any proof of information on variances.

Then KS Cone Killer posted his measurements.


Then I got mine and measured them and they were identical to OEM.

So yes, he is threadcrapping. The preponderance of evidence is that the yellows are dimensionally identical to OEM. The circumstantial evidence doesn't override the hard data.

If someone knows something concrete, I want to know before I drive from NJ to Lincoln, but based on my calipers, other people's measurements, and a conversation with the guy at Koni that personally bought the OEM struts that's they replicated to build the yellows, I'm comfortable.

Conjecture and speculation contradictory to evidence is not compelling. It's crapping.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[itzmik3]

Originally Posted by solort

Waiting till Nationals would not be fair to a lot of people. But address it with a protest at a tour or pro is what you need to do if you want to lay it to rest.. I know of another protest with another stock car and camber allowances that will be handled that way for clarification. Speculation clarifies nothing. But it is just a suggestion...

The next tour or pro that a protest could be administered would be at Nationals for us west coast guys (no we aren't driving all the way to Packwood lol).

I am just waiting to see once we see a side by side comparison with parts in their hands so this can finally be put to rest.

[ChrisV]

Originally Posted by itzmik3

well that was fun to read through lol

but in all honestly @ChrisV you telling @simpleisbest to "stop acting and saying that you know anything for certain" goes both ways. unless you are a rep for koni or the engineer who was in charge of the design for the koni full replacements, then by all means go ahead and preach that the koni is an exact 1 for 1 OEM replacement.

however in the end, it doesn't matter if the variances are off by 1mm or even 1 micron since now you are getting a competitive advantage.

in my eyes you guys both don't know so you guys are both entitled to your opinions

just my 2 cents.

I meant to multi quote this in the prior post. The difference between me and simpleisbest is that I'm operating on facts and he's operating on conjecture. Mine is not an opinion, but rather a data driven conclusion. Unless and until there is data that overrules it, it will stand.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[Laloosh]

I for one am highly against protesting such things and am all for people finding out the correct info prior to some ass hole ruining your event.

[itzmik3]

Originally Posted by ChrisV

I'm not a Koni engineer, but I went right to the NA Motorsports Manager for Koni to ask because I wanted to be legal. He certainly wants any proof of information on variances.

Then KS Cone Killer posted his measurements.


Then I got mine and measured them and they were identical to OEM.

So yes, he is threadcrapping. The preponderance of evidence is that the yellows are dimensionally identical to OEM. The circumstantial evidence doesn't override the hard data.

If someone knows something concrete, I want to know before I drive from NJ to Lincoln, but based on my calipers, other people's measurements, and a conversation with the guy at Koni that personally bought the OEM struts that's they replicated to build the yellows, I'm comfortable.

Conjecture and speculation contradictory to evidence is not compelling. It's crapping.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

okay then I want to hear from you how your Koni's have magically .2-.4 more negative camber compared to everyone else?

and yes I have raced in a CS FRS previously so I am quite familiar with the amount of camber is obtainable in "stock" form.

**side note this is why I race in SM**

[ChrisV]

Originally Posted by itzmik3

okay then I want to hear from you how your Koni's have magically .2-.4 more negative camber compared to everyone else?

**side note this is why I race in SM**

I don't know. They're dimensionally identical. That's all I need. The burden of proof is in anyone who says they're illegal.

I've done the leg work. I'm compliant with the rules.