Master cylinder brace: Grimmspeed vs Perrin

[GrimmSpeed]

Originally Posted by JC0830

been looking into MCB and came across this thread...
correct me if I'm wrong..but from your explanation, if the MCB moves not only vertically but horizontally and the set screw 'bites' into the aluminum then will it not carve/wear it away and cause room for movement?

Mladen might be able to jump in here and give you some better info, but I recall @Travisty75 posting a review of his supertek, which appears to be a knockoff, but functions in a similar way. He had photos showing how the brace bites into the aluminum of your OEM MCB.

Here's a video of some testing that we did. You can see that it would be 100% correct to say that the motion of the master cylinder isn't purely in and out but that if you can get that under control, the up and down is nearly eliminated as well, instead of just being transferred to your strut tower as a bending load. This is why we chose to make the red machined cap, even if it increases our cost a bit.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLgkWPekRaY"]GrimmSpeed - BRZ/FR-S Master Cylinder Brace Testing - YouTube[/ame]

Either way, you can't really go wrong. Most of them seem to perform in a similar way, so choose the one that you prefer!

Matt Beenen
Engineering

[PERRIN_Mladen]

Originally Posted by JC0830

been looking into MCB and came across this thread...
correct me if I'm wrong..but from your explanation, if the MCB moves not only vertically but horizontally and the set screw 'bites' into the aluminum then will it not carve/wear it away and cause room for movement?

If the screw is not tight, it could over time. However, we have been using this setup for about 8 years now and have NEVER had an issue with anyones MC failing.

Worst thing is that there is a small ring on the end if the MC is removed.

[Supertek Industries]

Originally Posted by GrimmSpeed

Mladen might be able to jump in here and give you some better info, but I recall @Travisty75 posting a review of his supertek, which appears to be a knockoff, but functions in a similar way. He had photos showing how the brace bites into the aluminum of your OEM MCB.

Here's a video of some testing that we did. You can see that it would be 100% correct to say that the motion of the master cylinder isn't purely in and out but that if you can get that under control, the up and down is nearly eliminated as well, instead of just being transferred to your strut tower as a bending load. This is why we chose to make the red machined cap, even if it increases our cost a bit.

Either way, you can't really go wrong. Most of them seem to perform in a similar way, so choose the one that you prefer!

Matt Beenen
Engineering

Thanks for quoting our product as a "knock off", which is not true. We would never try to insult another forum sponsor out of respect for eachother. In this case we feel the need to respond.

The design is different. In addition our brace is made from 7075-T6 which is superior to anything We see out there outside of Japan. As a matter of fact our engineer who had over 20 years experience in aviation and was shocked that companies were using 6061-T6 for anything other than decorative purposes. In regulated industries it is prohibited. It seems many aftermarket automotive companies are using the cheapest material available, either to inflate their margins or because of the limitations of their CNC machinery.

[JC0830]

@GrimmSpeed @PERRIN_Mladen @Supertek Industries
so it seems the only difference in the product, other than the design, is that Supertek uses 7075-T6 and GrimmSpeed has a cap.

so why isn't the MCB initially installed in cars?

[PERRIN_Jeff]

Originally Posted by JC0830

@GrimmSpeed @PERRIN_Mladen @Supertek Industries
so it seems the only difference in the product, other than the design, is that Supertek uses 7075-T6 and GrimmSpeed has a cap.

so why isn't the MCB initially installed in cars?

Yes ours used 6061-T6 aluminum, and this other one that looks very similar to our part (strange isn't it) uses 7075, and Grimmspeed's is steel with a cap.

Why isn't it installed from the factory? Its not really a problem that the firewall flexes is why. No OEM makes everything perfect, and we find that adding this is a simple way to add a bit more feel to the car.

We stand behind our reasons for using a cup point setscrew for reasons Mladen explained before. This controls the left to right motion found as you smash the brakes.

Regarding the material choice. Yes, 7075 is better, but its complete overkill for most all the parts on the car. Yes, its "air craft grade" but so are lots for things and i remember how people flung around 6061-T6 as "air craft grade" for years, and i just laughed at the marketing behind that. If there was a tangible difference using this, we would use it. Even our Supersteer system which was probably the most stressed part we ever made, was 6061 and never did we have issue. We use 6061-T6 on everything and there isn't a single part that would actually benefit from using 7075-T6 that we make. Especially on the MCB, the steel shock tower still flexes some and making it out of stiffer material won't help. For sure its not something a customer will notice.

Really, the material is just the only way this other part varies from ours. I guess that is good, they had to change it some how.....

Guys,
Be on the look out for a new 6Al-4V Titanium PERRIN MCB w/gold foil shielding...working on it right now...

[JC0830]

@PERRIN_Jeff

thank you for the explanation!

and as for the new MCB you guys are working on..what effect does the gold foil shielding have?

[PERRIN_Mladen]

Originally Posted by JC0830

@PERRIN_Jeff

thank you for the explanation!

and as for the new MCB you guys are working on..what effect does the gold foil shielding have?

@PERRIN_Jeff has already left for the day. However, I think his intentions were to shield the part from getting too hot from the engine. We want to avoid any type of melting concerns of the "cheaper" material we use. We may even surpass the gold foil and use Reinforced carbon-carbon as they do on Space Shuttles. This may raises our prices, but it will be well worth it.

@JC0830 We are completely just having fun with this situation and will not be making any changes to our part as of now. We are very confident in the materials we use!

[husker741]

This week on WWE SMACKDOWN, it's PERRIN vs. GrimmSpeed vs. Supertek.

[gramicci101]

You could make it out of ceramic composite, if you're really worried about heat transfer.

[PERRIN_Mladen]

Originally Posted by husker741

This week on WWE SMACKDOWN, it's PERRIN vs. GrimmSpeed vs. Supertek.

Lol. However, our humerous comments were not directed at GS in anyway.

[husker741]

Originally Posted by PERRIN_Mladen

Lol. However, our humerous comments were not directed at GS in anyway.

Totally understood. Just having some fun. I have some Perrin stuff and some GrimmSpeed stuff so I enjoy both company's products.

[GrimmSpeed]

I think Jeff did a nice job of summarizing why these aren't included on our cars from the factory. Stiffening or supporting the firewall to reduce this flex probably adds an amount of cost/complexity to the manufacturing of the vehicles that the OEM couldn't justify. No biggie - I'm sure they make these decisions all across the board. Luckily for you, some of us spend our careers improving on those shortcomings! Unless you've got one of these braces, you don't know what you're missing out on!

Originally Posted by Supertek Industries

Thanks for quoting our product as a "knock off", which is not true. We would never try to insult another forum sponsor out of respect for eachother. In this case we feel the need to respond.

The design is different. In addition our brace is made from 7075-T6 which is superior to anything We see out there outside of Japan. As a matter of fact our engineer who had over 20 years experience in aviation and was shocked that companies were using 6061-T6 for anything other than decorative purposes. In regulated industries it is prohibited. It seems many aftermarket automotive companies are using the cheapest material available, either to inflate their margins or because of the limitations of their CNC machinery.

My apologies, you're absolutely correct, I shouldn't have commented and my choice of words was obviously poor. Upon closer inspection, I do see the differences in your parts.

In any case, I spent my years before the automotive aftermarket designing weapons systems for the DoD and I can certainly understand the reasons that somebody in aviation or defense would shy away from 6061, but I think that in this application, along with most other automotive applications, it's a great material choice. Anyway, no need to go down this road, especially since I chose steel construction! I think it's clear that they all perform in a similar manner and there's a ton of information available in this thread and elsewhere, so you guys should have no trouble making an informed decision! If you've got any questions regarding the GS brace, feel free to be in touch.

Matt Beenen
Engineering

[JC0830]

Originally Posted by PERRIN_Mladen

@PERRIN_Jeff has already left for the day. However, I think his intentions were to shield the part from getting too hot from the engine. We want to avoid any type of melting concerns of the "cheaper" material we use. We may even surpass the gold foil and use Reinforced carbon-carbon as they dude on Space Shuttles. This may raises our prices, but it will be well worth it.

@JC0830 We are completely just having fun with this situation and will not be making any changes to our part as of now. We are very confident in the materials we use!

ah...now I catch your drift

[Jmonty]

Some fun reading