The 86 on Toyota's Chopping Block ?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by bkharmony

Totally agree.



It just doesn't make sense to me that these two haven't been implemented yet. I mean, these seem simpler than the head and intake redesign from last year. How much could this add to the final cost? $200? $400? I'll take it.

I get that the Primacy tires are on it because they're long-lasting, all-around tires with low friction that enable a bit of tail end slide, but aren't we past that fun marketing gimmick at this point? I mean, the BRZ suspension retune last year went a ways toward downplaying the tail-end slide. Why not just put proper tires on it out the door?

The manufacturers walk a fine line when meeting the required mileage and emissions standards. Things that look simple on the surface could actually push them over the edge for either of those requirements. The header could be an obvious one since in order to take advantage of a redesign it may require a tune. A tune may not be able to meet the standards. It is pretty common knowledge by now that the infamous torque dip is actually tuned into the engine for emissions reasons that they were forced to meet. Contrary to some people's belief it isn't there just because the engineers don't have a clue about how to build an exhaust system.
Although there is loads of marketing hype about how "playful" the Primacy tires are I would be very willing to bet that if you dug deeper they are actually the best bet they could find to meet the requirements.
Now, before everybody jumps on the whole "but the XX version has different tires" bandwagon remember that the mileage and emissions ratings are and average across the whole model. There are just not enough versions with different tires to push that average over the restrictions.
Shopping lists of "it should have" are great but there is a massive picture involved.

[rice_classic]

I think the wannabe youtube stars have done this car a disservice. It's like it became fashionable to hate on it... then all those other sack riders of these YT clowns who haven't driven the car simply echo-chamber the nonsense.

So much BS surrounding these cars that any potential buyer has a much greater than job than simply sifting through it... sifting isn't enough, it's more like navigating an ocean of BS using only a compass and the setting sun.

BTW: these YT wannabes are only growing in number, and the phrase "those who know it the loudest, know it the least" has never been more appropriate to describe them. This doesn't only apply to cars either. Photography, fashion, Investing, gaming, eating, tech - every category has a self-proclaimed expert trying to get more people to "click here to subscribe" while wildly speaking out of school on the subject.

The Dunning Krueger effect is rampant on YT.

/end rant

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by yurikaze

The tires have been addressed already. If you want the grippier but less fun tires, you can have them. My car came with Michelin Pilot Sport 4's, and yes, I know it's a limited edition, but the TRD 86 makes up a huge chunk of the 2019 86 production run, and offers the same option. Yes you have to pay, but that's no different from many other companies who have a tire upgrade linked to a performance package.

That's good, but you'd think the BRZ Performance Package might include better tires, too.

[highway7]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I think the wannabe youtube stars have done this car a disservice. It's like it became fashionable to hate on it... then all those other sack riders of these YT clowns who haven't driven the car simply echo-chamber the nonsense.

So much BS surrounding these cars that any potential buyer has a much greater than job than simply sifting through it... sifting isn't enough, it's more like navigating an ocean of BS using only a compass and the setting sun.

BTW: these YT wannabes are only growing in number, and the phrase "those who know it the loudest, know it the least" has never been more appropriate to describe them. This doesn't only apply to cars either. Photography, fashion, Investing, gaming, eating, tech - every category has a self-proclaimed expert trying to get more people to "click here to subscribe" while wildly speaking out of school on the subject.

The Dunning Krueger effect is rampant on YT.

/end rant

So true. The same people that diss on the FRS/BRZ for being slow are the same people that praise the ND Miata as perfect, even though both vehicles are designed with handling over raw power in mind.

[GrantedTaken]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I doubt a 40HP increase would satisfy many much less a majority. It would just up the number of what the car "needs" to the throngs that just read specs and have never even sat in one much less drove it. Hell I doubt it will even satisfy many of the more power crowd here since the jump off point for the "least" they want seems to be the rather random 300HP.

Exactly. These fools are looking at the wrong car.
Go buy any of the other DOZENS of cars out there with massive engines.
The BRZ was never meant for the fools who think it needs anything.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

Exactly. These fools are looking at the wrong car.
Go buy any of the other DOZENS of cars out there with massive engines.
The BRZ was never meant for the fools who think it needs anything.

For me it's not the peak HP that needs increasing, it's just the dip that needs fixing. A cat delete and E85 mostly resolved the dip for me. I didn't gain 40HP but the car feels entirely different now. Not so much when doing redline pulls as you stay out of the dip in that scenario anyways. It's daily driving where the improved dip makes a big difference. I have no desire to make any extra HP on my car.

[alphasaur]

Originally Posted by highway7

So true. The same people that diss on the FRS/BRZ for being slow are the same people that praise the ND Miata as perfect, even though both vehicles are designed with handling over raw power in mind.

the nd miata has a lovely powerband, that's the difference.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I think the wannabe youtube stars have done this car a disservice. It's like it became fashionable to hate on it... then all those other sack riders of these YT clowns who haven't driven the car simply echo-chamber the nonsense.

So much BS surrounding these cars that any potential buyer has a much greater than job than simply sifting through it... sifting isn't enough, it's more like navigating an ocean of BS using only a compass and the setting sun.

BTW: these YT wannabes are only growing in number, and the phrase "those who know it the loudest, know it the least" has never been more appropriate to describe them. This doesn't only apply to cars either. Photography, fashion, Investing, gaming, eating, tech - every category has a self-proclaimed expert trying to get more people to "click here to subscribe" while wildly speaking out of school on the subject.

The Dunning Krueger effect is rampant on YT.

/end rant

Yep, back in the 50s (ya, here we go again - ), some of the relatively economical, light, sporty, quick handling cars are shown below.

I don't recall the boys driving the "muscle" cars of the day, beating up on the folks that drove these cars. Nope, they were relatively slow on the 1/4 mile track, they couldn't get 2nd gear rubber nor could the lay a 100 feet long patch of rubber.

They served a different driving enjoyment and we (me and the 50s motoring crowd, just let them do their thing), while we continued to add cubic inches, add more carburetors and blowers, all for the purpose to see who could get to the end of a quarter mile the soonest.

Who had the most fun, the folks spending the day at a hot, smoky, stinky, drag strip, listening to the roar of big iron blasting down a drag strip or the folks spending the day in a rough riding, cramped machine cruising around the countryside.





humfrz

[Gt-S Twin Cam]

I believe the powerband as delivered, complete with dip in power, was intentional.

For starters, the powerband is going to have a dip somewhere, unavoidable.

I believe the development engineers looked at how drivers would use the car while driving normally in the city and the highway, adhering to city limits and highway limits.

I noticed while doing so, you’re able to stay just before the dip in the powerband. This keeps the engine feeling pretty good while tooling around.

And if you want to get aggressive driving, it doesn’t take much to rev past the dip to play in the top half of the powerband.

I think this was intentional, and I’m thinking great design. It would absolutely suck if, just driving around normally at posted speed limits, you were smack in the middle of the dead spots,

Coming from motorcycles, I’m used to paying attention to where I,m using the motor all the time. Before getting the car, I was worried about that dip in the powerband. But first drive in and since, I’m completely ok with it and even happy it’s where it is.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Gt-S Twin Cam

I believe the powerband as delivered, complete with dip in power, was intentional.

For starters, the powerband is going to have a dip somewhere, unavoidable.

I believe the development engineers looked at how drivers would use the car while driving normally in the city and the highway, adhering to city limits and highway limits.

I noticed while doing so, you’re able to stay just before the dip in the powerband. This keeps the engine feeling pretty good while tooling around.

And if you want to get aggressive driving, it doesn’t take much to rev past the dip to play in the top half of the powerband.

I think this was intentional, and I’m thinking great design. It would absolutely suck if, just driving around normally at posted speed limits, you were smack in the middle of the dead spots,

Coming from motorcycles, I’m used to paying attention to where I,m using the motor all the time. Before getting the car, I was worried about that dip in the powerband. But first drive in and since, I’m completely ok with it and even happy it’s where it is.

Maybe not "intentional" but at very least unavoidable.

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by humfrz

... back in the 50s... some of the relatively economical, light, sporty, quick handling cars are shown below.

Not merely to nitpick, but roll-up windows on an open-top 50s sports car?

Actually, the MGB pictured came along in the 60s, and was followed by much-needed replacements for the TR3 shown. Interestingly, both MGs and TRs went through a series of very useful updates in the 60s, eventually resulting in Triumph's best of the breed TR6 with almost as much HP as our cars and IRS. With aftermarket updates, especially rear disc brakes, suspension, wheels and tires, it can still be a fun to drive weekend backroad classic.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Wayne

Not merely to nitpick, but roll-up windows on an open-top 50s sports car?

Actually, the MGB pictured came along in the 60s, and was followed by much-needed replacements for the TR3 shown. Interestingly, both MGs and TRs went through a series of very useful updates in the 60s, eventually resulting in Triumph's best of the breed TR6 with almost as much HP as our cars and IRS. With aftermarket updates, especially rear disc brakes, suspension, wheels and tires, it can still be a fun to drive weekend backroad classic.

Well, "nit picking Wayne" - , you got me there.

Is this picture better? -


humfrz

[Silvermk2]

Where Toyota screwed up is in not giving this car a factory turbo. It could have been just 200hp with a turbo and it would have been a huge improvement. Even if it bumped the MSRP or grand or two it would be worth. Japanese tuner cars cars are all about forced induction. It would be like Ford not making a V8 Mustang.

Now when you buy one of these cars and you pay $5-6k + to add a turbo or supercharger you are in Mustang GT or Camaro V8 price territory. If it had a factory turbo you can bump the boost or even get a bolt in replacement turbo for far less than the cost of doing it all for scratch.

IMO opinion the reason the BRZ/GT86 is as hamstrung as it is it that Subaru doesn't want to steal any thunder from the WRX and STI. I figure Toyota probably paid for the development and Subaru get a free car they sell and make a little money on the side, but they don't want to kill their main line up.

IMO these cars are going to be like FD RX7s 10 yrs down the road where there are more with swaps than with an FA20 in them.

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Is this picture [of a late 50s MGA] better?

Yeah, I'll give that one a thumbs up . I would have also accepted a shot of a mid-50s MG-TF. As a relatively irrelevant aside, however, I watched an apparently very period correct MG-TF flopping and wallowing (but going very slowly) around the autocross course at this year's Cruisin' the Coast. It was a tad disorienting to think that I once regarded that as a 'real sports car'.