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Old 05-26-2019, 08:52 PM   #267
fosterfoster
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Another 2013 FR-S engine failure after valve spring recall

Vehicle Mileage:About 103,000 km
Vehicle Make: 2013 Scion FR-S
Mileage After Recall Performed: About 98,000 km
Symptom(s): Heavy knocking sound from the engine while driving suddenly occurred out of seemingly no where. Within the span of few hundred meters of driving car after sound developed engine died.
Failure: Internal engine component (likely bearing rod based on what tech told me). Engine was not fully disassembled as they were going to charge me for this as they believed issue is unrelated to recall
State:Ontario, Canada (Toronto)
Is Dealership Offering Repair:No. Took it to closest dealership when engine died (Georgetown Toyota), who advised they would NOT work on the car because based on the symptoms and the vehicle history they believed the work was related to the valve spring recall (they said this without having to open up the engine, big red flag). Took it to the dealership who did the work (Yorkdale Toyota). They opened up the side of the engine, advised valve springs were intact and issue was unrelated to the recall. I did research and found this forum and the other articles. I showed Yorkdale Toyota's Service Manager the articles. He advised this was the first he had heard of these issues but would call Corporate to discuss this issue. Next day the service Manager advised me that Corporate said there is no issue with the recall work and they (Corporate) would not take responsibility for any damages. He advised Yorkdale would not take any responsibility because they performed the work as directed per Toyota's instructions. I phoned Toyota's customer service line. They told me that Yorkdale's notes say the issue is unrelated to the recall. Essentially both parties (the dealership and Toyota itself) are saying the other one is saying its not their fault and no one is willing to accept any responsibility.

Beyond frustrated at this point. Yorkdale is telling me it is cheaper to replace the engine with a used one rather than trying to disassemble mine and fix it. They want to charge me $7000 for used engine with 100k mileage. Anyone had any luck pursuing legal action?
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:53 PM   #268
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Sorry to hear this. Report this on the NHTSA site. With enough of us, they'll investigate.

Last edited by AmphOne; 05-27-2019 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 05-27-2019, 12:32 AM   #269
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Welcome to the forum.

I suggest you post over here and we can discuss.

www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133306


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Old 05-27-2019, 08:11 AM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fosterfoster View Post
Vehicle Mileage:About 103,000 km
Vehicle Make: 2013 Scion FR-S
Mileage After Recall Performed: About 98,000 km
Symptom(s): Heavy knocking sound from the engine while driving suddenly occurred out of seemingly no where. Within the span of few hundred meters of driving car after sound developed engine died.
Failure: Internal engine component (likely bearing rod based on what tech told me). Engine was not fully disassembled as they were going to charge me for this as they believed issue is unrelated to recall
State:Ontario, Canada (Toronto)
Is Dealership Offering Repair:No. Took it to closest dealership when engine died (Georgetown Toyota), who advised they would NOT work on the car because based on the symptoms and the vehicle history they believed the work was related to the valve spring recall (they said this without having to open up the engine, big red flag). Took it to the dealership who did the work (Yorkdale Toyota). They opened up the side of the engine, advised valve springs were intact and issue was unrelated to the recall. I did research and found this forum and the other articles. I showed Yorkdale Toyota's Service Manager the articles. He advised this was the first he had heard of these issues but would call Corporate to discuss this issue. Next day the service Manager advised me that Corporate said there is no issue with the recall work and they (Corporate) would not take responsibility for any damages. He advised Yorkdale would not take any responsibility because they performed the work as directed per Toyota's instructions. I phoned Toyota's customer service line. They told me that Yorkdale's notes say the issue is unrelated to the recall. Essentially both parties (the dealership and Toyota itself) are saying the other one is saying its not their fault and no one is willing to accept any responsibility.

Beyond frustrated at this point. Yorkdale is telling me it is cheaper to replace the engine with a used one rather than trying to disassemble mine and fix it. They want to charge me $7000 for used engine with 100k mileage. Anyone had any luck pursuing legal action?
Don't bother contacting the NHTSA we are Canadian and they won't give a crap.


But because we are Canadian we actually have an agency that deals with exactly this scenario! Contact these folks - https://www.camvap.ca/ They will help.
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Old 05-27-2019, 11:37 AM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fosterfoster View Post
Vehicle Mileage:About 103,000 km
Vehicle Make: 2013 Scion FR-S
Mileage After Recall Performed: About 98,000 km
Symptom(s): Heavy knocking sound from the engine while driving suddenly occurred out of seemingly no where. Within the span of few hundred meters of driving car after sound developed engine died.
Failure: Internal engine component (likely bearing rod based on what tech told me). Engine was not fully disassembled as they were going to charge me for this as they believed issue is unrelated to recall
State:Ontario, Canada (Toronto)
Is Dealership Offering Repair:No. Took it to closest dealership when engine died (Georgetown Toyota), who advised they would NOT work on the car because based on the symptoms and the vehicle history they believed the work was related to the valve spring recall (they said this without having to open up the engine, big red flag). Took it to the dealership who did the work (Yorkdale Toyota). They opened up the side of the engine, advised valve springs were intact and issue was unrelated to the recall. I did research and found this forum and the other articles. I showed Yorkdale Toyota's Service Manager the articles. He advised this was the first he had heard of these issues but would call Corporate to discuss this issue. Next day the service Manager advised me that Corporate said there is no issue with the recall work and they (Corporate) would not take responsibility for any damages. He advised Yorkdale would not take any responsibility because they performed the work as directed per Toyota's instructions. I phoned Toyota's customer service line. They told me that Yorkdale's notes say the issue is unrelated to the recall. Essentially both parties (the dealership and Toyota itself) are saying the other one is saying its not their fault and no one is willing to accept any responsibility.

Beyond frustrated at this point. Yorkdale is telling me it is cheaper to replace the engine with a used one rather than trying to disassemble mine and fix it. They want to charge me $7000 for used engine with 100k mileage. Anyone had any luck pursuing legal action?
Easiest way to see if dealership blew your engine, is dropping your oil pan and looking at oil pick up screen. If it is clogged with sealant, then you can prove dealer is at fault.
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Old 05-27-2019, 05:27 PM   #272
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Well, I guess it's time to post what I HOPE is a final update on my car and the four month saga...


VERY short recap -

Since about 60K miles, when I had the plugs replaced (recommended maintenance) and the timing chain cover resealed (warranty), slight reduction in gas mileage and power.

Four months ago, had recall done.

500 miles later, checked oil... none visible. Overfilled accidentally, drained a quart, and noticed serious shrapnel in the oil.
Another 100 miles, car starts hesitating, stumbling, backfiring, and smoking like crazy upon startup, a little over a month after the recall procedure

Back to dealership, and they agreed to do a full engine replacement under warranty; master tech and I examined obviously worn and shot bearings and journals.

Master tech informs me that someone had been inside my engine before, as he noticed sealant and shrapnel in the oil pan when he performed the recall, but neglected to mention it at the time hoping that it would be OK. I informed him the only other time any one had been "in the engine" was when it was at this same dealership for the timing cover reseal. He confirmed, but said he didn't do that reseal; it was one of the other guys in his crew. That's where the trouble started, and why he went out of his way to make sure I got a new engine. Much appreciated, but would have rather everyone been completely up front about that from the onset.
As a thank you, and just preventatively, I also had them install a new clutch and TOB at my expense along with the new engine; they were very fair about the parts cost and didn't charge any labor.

Another month goes by, get call, car is ready. Go pick it up. Check engine light comes on the next day, and car sounds like a loud sewing machine. Immediately back to shop.
Code shows mixture problems and misfire (cylinder 3, I think). I asked whether they had changed the injector seals. "No, they didn't come with the recall or engine replacement parts list." They proceded to swap out injectors as part of their troubleshooting procedures, without replacing seals. I insisted that they replace the seals after they figure out what's wrong and prior to returning the car to me. They agree.
More than another month goes by. Tech could NOT figure out why the car was running poorly. I finally get a call saying car is ready last week, and I've been driving it. It's running GREAT.

The answer? The tech was at his wit's end, so he called Subaru and spoke with one of their engineers, describing the problem. The Subaru guy said to him, "You're really fussy, aren't you, and very careful?" The tech answered in the affirmative. Engineer told him that he has the valves shimmed to tight, and that these engines like to be adjusted to the middle of the allowed range rather than to the tightest tolerance.

He reshimmed the valves for the fourth time, taking this advice into account, and the car runs awesome.


Soooo.. that's the story. Not thrilled with the four months without my car, but can't fault the service manager or master tech for much.. they took good care of me.


That's the tale.
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Old 05-27-2019, 07:17 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuseChaser View Post
Well, I guess it's time to post what I HOPE is a final update on my car and the four month saga...


VERY short recap -

Engineer told him that he has the valves shimmed to tight, and that these engines like to be adjusted to the middle of the allowed range rather than to the tightest tolerance.

He reshimmed the valves for the fourth time, taking this advice into account, and the car runs awesome.


That's the tale.
Well, no shit, did that tech miss the point that most mechanics have known for years -

Glad your car survived!


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Old 05-28-2019, 12:23 AM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuseChaser View Post
Well, I guess it's time to post what I HOPE is a final update on my car and the four month saga...


VERY short recap -

Since about 60K miles, when I had the plugs replaced (recommended maintenance) and the timing chain cover resealed (warranty), slight reduction in gas mileage and power.

Four months ago, had recall done.

500 miles later, checked oil... none visible. Overfilled accidentally, drained a quart, and noticed serious shrapnel in the oil.
Another 100 miles, car starts hesitating, stumbling, backfiring, and smoking like crazy upon startup, a little over a month after the recall procedure

Back to dealership, and they agreed to do a full engine replacement under warranty; master tech and I examined obviously worn and shot bearings and journals.

Master tech informs me that someone had been inside my engine before, as he noticed sealant and shrapnel in the oil pan when he performed the recall, but neglected to mention it at the time hoping that it would be OK. I informed him the only other time any one had been "in the engine" was when it was at this same dealership for the timing cover reseal. He confirmed, but said he didn't do that reseal; it was one of the other guys in his crew. That's where the trouble started, and why he went out of his way to make sure I got a new engine. Much appreciated, but would have rather everyone been completely up front about that from the onset.
As a thank you, and just preventatively, I also had them install a new clutch and TOB at my expense along with the new engine; they were very fair about the parts cost and didn't charge any labor.

Another month goes by, get call, car is ready. Go pick it up. Check engine light comes on the next day, and car sounds like a loud sewing machine. Immediately back to shop.
Code shows mixture problems and misfire (cylinder 3, I think). I asked whether they had changed the injector seals. "No, they didn't come with the recall or engine replacement parts list." They proceded to swap out injectors as part of their troubleshooting procedures, without replacing seals. I insisted that they replace the seals after they figure out what's wrong and prior to returning the car to me. They agree.
More than another month goes by. Tech could NOT figure out why the car was running poorly. I finally get a call saying car is ready last week, and I've been driving it. It's running GREAT.

The answer? The tech was at his wit's end, so he called Subaru and spoke with one of their engineers, describing the problem. The Subaru guy said to him, "You're really fussy, aren't you, and very careful?" The tech answered in the affirmative. Engineer told him that he has the valves shimmed to tight, and that these engines like to be adjusted to the middle of the allowed range rather than to the tightest tolerance.

He reshimmed the valves for the fourth time, taking this advice into account, and the car runs awesome.


Soooo.. that's the story. Not thrilled with the four months without my car, but can't fault the service manager or master tech for much.. they took good care of me.


That's the tale.
This now makes me curious. I have the sewing machine ticking noise from anywhere around 2.5k rpm and up and iíve been told itís my hpfp working and itís normal. Except if itís normal why did i start noticing it after the recall work was done and not before.
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Old 05-28-2019, 12:29 AM   #275
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This now makes me curious. I have the sewing machine ticking noise from anywhere around 2.5k rpm and up and iíve been told itís my hpfp working and itís normal. Except if itís normal why did i start noticing it after the recall work was done and not before.
I'd suggest you bring this up over on the discussion thread. I'd reply but, I don't want to get scolded (again) for diluting this thread.


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Old 05-29-2019, 09:38 PM   #276
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Reported my engine failure after the recall to Toronto Star's Consumer Protection Reporter to try and bring more light on this situation. She said she is interested story but is hoping to hear from other affected Canadians. I've put her email address below if other Canadians wish to reach out.

eroseman@thestar.ca
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:24 AM   #277
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Vehicle Mileage:926xx
Vehicle Make: 2013 Scion FR-S
Mileage After Recall Performed: ~926xx
Symptom(s): Took car in for recall, given back to me knocking, no power, turned around and gave it back. They called the next day said it was fine, I got halfway home and it failed. They towed it back to the dealer.
Failure: Spun bearing
State:TX
Is Dealership Offering Repair: No said it wasnt their work and offered me an engine replacement for like 7k. It's currently under a tarp in my garage.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:27 AM   #278
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Reported my engine failure after the recall to Toronto Star's Consumer Protection Reporter to try and bring more light on this situation. She said she is interested story but is hoping to hear from other affected Canadians. I've put her email address below if other Canadians wish to reach out.

eroseman@thestar.ca
Have you bothered to contact the agency we have to deal with exactly this sort of issue though?
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Old 06-04-2019, 11:33 AM   #279
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Vehicle Mileage: 38xxx
Vehicle Make: Scion
Mileage After Recall Performed: 38xxx

Symptom(s): Air/Fuel imbalance codes came on the same day vehicle was picked up from dealer after recall performed.

Failure: Brought the vehicle back to dealer after CEL came on and they eventually blamed the fact that the vehicle was tuned (unknowingly to me, vehicle was tuned by previous owner). I had tune removed and returned it to dealer but they said that they wouldn't work on it until it had a new ECU at cost to me, after trying to talk with Toyota and the dealer, I eventually caved and paid for the new ecu hoping to get my car fixed. Later on, the dealer called me saying that the injector ecu was replaced (I don't think a tune has anything to do with the injector ecu) and the car was ready so I went and picked it up. I let the car warm up and then started on my way home but the CEL returned while idling at the first stop light. I immediately turned around and gave it back to the dealer. After a week and a half, the dealer told me that I need a new short block and that I would have to pay for it since the car has been modified and they assume overheated by a previous owner. I have tried talking to Toyota and the dealer directly but no one wants to take responsibility for the fact that I brought in a working car and left with one that constantly sets a CEL.

State: The car is currently sitting at the dealer while I try to get this sorted out. I'm to the point that I believe that I won't be receiving any help from Toyota or the dealer so I'm planning on removing the engine and replacing the short block myself.

Is Dealership Offering Repair: I already had to pay about $1k for an injector ecu that didn't fix the problem and the dealer is saying that it would cost another $6k+ to have them replace the short block. All of this would be out of my pocket.
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:11 PM   #280
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Vehicle Mileage:64643km
Vehicle Make: Toyota 86
Mileage After Recall Performed: 65022km


Symptom(s): Engine developed a knock that appeared to come from right hand rear cylinder head. louder at idle.


Failure: TDB
State: Queensland: Australia
Is Dealership Offering Repair: at this stage yes, they are assessing it as we speak.
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