ft86 no longer sells catless items?

[86MLR]

Trucks, not new trucks, older trucks, a old truck will pump out 100x (guesstimate) more pollutants than a nee truck.

New trucks are usually hwy rigs, where big km and fuel consumption makes it viable to upgrade every few years.

Where do these trucks go, the cities, hauling containers aroind usually, from ports to commercial.

The Euros have got their shit sorted with emmisions, and rightly so.

The research and findings are oit there to back this up, unfortunately, for the local owner driver who ships your parts/clothes/furniture/food, a new truck every 5 years isn't financially viable.

The government should subsidize the cost, if they were serious about emmisions, but they seem just talk shit and look elsewhere for solutions that are logistically and financially troublesome, if not outright stupid.

What world will you leave for your grandchildren?

In the big picture, modern cars are just 1 drop in the ocean of pollutants we pump ot every day.

And don't get me started on population growth and how we have gone so far past the tipping point that we will be in for a real shit show in the future.

Yeah, go team human.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I bet the other is only legal in Nevada!

Hahaha nah it's legal in Texas too

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Trucks, not new trucks, older trucks, a old truck will pump out 100x (guesstimate) more pollutants than a nee truck.

New trucks are usually hwy rigs, where big km and fuel consumption makes it viable to upgrade every few years.

Where do these trucks go, the cities, hauling containers aroind usually, from ports to commercial.

The Euros have got their shit sorted with emmisions, and rightly so.

The research and findings are oit there to back this up, unfortunately, for the local owner driver who ships your parts/clothes/furniture/food, a new truck every 5 years isn't financially viable.

The government should subsidize the cost, if they were serious about emmisions, but they seem just talk shit and look elsewhere for solutions that are logistically and financially troublesome, if not outright stupid.

What world will you leave for your grandchildren?

In the big picture, modern cars are just 1 drop in the ocean of pollutants we pump ot every day.

And don't get me started on population growth and how we have gone so far past the tipping point that we will be in for a real shit show in the future.

Yeah, go team human.

Large trucks make up about 7% of the North American vehicles and their emissions are more like 2 times that of cars not 100. Even the 2 times is deceiving since cars are worse during the warm up period and since the majority of drivers are going very short distances compared to the long drives of most trucks the total emissions are probably a wash.


Can't speak to European standards as I do not follow them.


Agreed that modern cars are a drop in the bucket but it is the very controls that people complain about that made it that way. If no changes were made back when they were we would probably be in pretty bad shape by now and the areas where people complain about the controls the most would be uninhabitable wastelands. I get that this can be hard for anybody under the age of about 50 to grasp since things have been so much better for their whole life but those of us that remember driving through a major urban center and half choking to death should understand what those emissions laws have done.


I repeat that I do not feel that the small number of modified cars are going to take us back to those day nor that some of the laws are effective or even rational but simply that the emissions have been reduced to a tolerable rate due to them.

[Lincoln Logs]

I worked in and I still am a part of the automotive industry. There has been a huge shift in anything emissions related after the EPA dropped the hammer on Jegs and similar retailers. The reality is these parts WILL slowly disappear. No business in their right mind will risk being fined for making 20% margin on a header that sells for $500-600 dollars. The numbers do not add up.

To those running a completely catless set up, I got news for you. You're not making that much more power (if any) and I loath sitting behind you at a stop light. It smells, it's unnecessary and quite frankly makes no sense. Modern catalytic converters continue to improve at a rapid rate and hardly cause any major performance losses. The next generation of catalytic converters will out perform anything we've seen.

The stock front pipe, in my testing, shows zero restriction for my uses and I'd wager for 99% of folks out there. There IS a good reason to consider a catless header if you're spending a fair amount of time on track. Often manifolds with integrated catalytic converters, designed for warm up emissions, will melt after long track sessions. That is, however, a problem for a very small percentage of users.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by weederr33

Though honestly, I still feel I'd modify my car even with stricter emissions.

Like any law there will always be the rule breakers, but it helps keep enough in check that the modifying community don't really make a dent even I would think.

Originally Posted by weederr33

I guess that proves the nanny state stereotype lol. Kidding. But I will point out that it's a place that at least 2 of my favorite hobbies have heavy restrictions. Cars being one.

IDK, for all the complaints about CA I drive my modified exhaust car while carrying my CCW without much issue lol

Originally Posted by Lincoln Logs

I worked in and I still am a part of the automotive industry. There has been a huge shift in anything emissions related after the EPA dropped the hammer on Jegs and similar retailers. The reality is these parts WILL slowly disappear. No business in their right mind will risk being fined for making 20% margin on a header that sells for $500-600 dollars. The numbers do not add up.

To those running a completely catless set up, I got news for you. You're not making that much more power (if any) and I loath sitting behind you at a stop light. It smells, it's unnecessary and quite frankly makes no sense. Modern catalytic converters continue to improve at a rapid rate and hardly cause any major performance losses. The next generation of catalytic converters will out perform anything we've seen.

The stock front pipe, in my testing, shows zero restriction for my uses and I'd wager for 99% of folks out there. There IS a good reason to consider a catless header if you're spending a fair amount of time on track. Often manifolds with integrated catalytic converters, designed for warm up emissions, will melt after long track sessions. That is, however, a problem for a very small percentage of users.

This is why not being able to do a HFC kinda sucks even. I would guess more of the gain just comes from the increased diameter and maybe runner/collector design.

Maybe in a couple years I'll sell my header for a markup since it won't be available and just buy an HFC that I can gut when it blows out lol.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by finch1750

IDK, for all the complaints about CA I drive my modified exhaust car while carrying my CCW without much issue lol

lol speaking of CA laws

[Lincoln Logs]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Don't they have the "motorsport only" clause?

That's how we roll here

Just as a little heads up, there is a reason we've seen the motorsports only clause disappear. It is no longer a valid excuse or way to keep yourself safe as a business. The EPA knows full well customers are buying those parts and putting them on road going cars.

Originally Posted by finch1750

Like any law there will always be the rule breakers, but it helps keep enough in check that the modifying community don't really make a dent even I would think.


This is why not being able to do a HFC kinda sucks even. I would guess more of the gain just comes from the increased diameter and maybe runner/collector design.

Maybe in a couple years I'll sell my header for a markup since it won't be available and just buy an HFC that I can gut when it blows out lol.

You hit the nail on the head, gains are seen from runner/collector changes and diameter changes. In-fact, on my 2017 I barely saw any gains on E85 when I moved for a generic UEL header. Small change in the mid-range and nominal changes up top. The OEMs are getting better and better even with the emissions compromises they have to make.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by finch1750

Like any law there will always be the rule breakers, but it helps keep enough in check that the modifying community don't really make a dent even I would think.

.

That was the point I was trying to make where everybody kept saying "but XXX is polluting as well". The laws are there to keep the majority of the cars clean and the few that decide to break it are not causing any real issue. They just need to get over the fact that the law does exist and isn't going away so if they chose to break it then any ramifications are on them. Just like speeding or illegal parking or anything else there will be some that feel it is unfair and they should be able to do whatever they want. Unfortunately if everybody does what ever they want things rarely go well.

[max20s14]

They still have turbo kits for sale that don't have cats.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Large trucks make up about 7% of the North American vehicles and their emissions are more like 2 times that of cars not 100. Even the 2 times is deceiving since cars are worse during the warm up period and since the majority of drivers are going very short distances compared to the long drives of most trucks the total emissions are probably a wash.


Can't speak to European standards as I do not follow them.


Agreed that modern cars are a drop in the bucket but it is the very controls that people complain about that made it that way. If no changes were made back when they were we would probably be in pretty bad shape by now and the areas where people complain about the controls the most would be uninhabitable wastelands. I get that this can be hard for anybody under the age of about 50 to grasp since things have been so much better for their whole life but those of us that remember driving through a major urban center and half choking to death should understand what those emissions laws have done.


I repeat that I do not feel that the small number of modified cars are going to take us back to those day nor that some of the laws are effective or even rational but simply that the emissions have been reduced to a tolerable rate due to them.

Here in Sydney Australia there is massive smog on the hwys, all the 10 year and older trucks are choking up the main arterials, basically from Ports Botany heading in every direction.

Sections of roads are signed "Windows up and turn your aircon to recycle".

It might be different where you are but here, with all the old trucks running from the port it is atrocious.

Disclaimer: I am by no means stupid enough to not know that we need trucks, its the soot blowing old beasts I have a issue with.
I also acknowledge that transport only plays a minor part, but it could be much smaller.

The main issue is being able to afford the new "clean" trucks

100 × was wrong, 60 x ???, this report is better at explaining it, minus my over opinionated views, LOL >

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Here in Sydney Australia there is massive smog on the hwys, all the 10 year and older trucks are choking up the main arterials, basically from Ports Botany heading in every direction.

Sections of roads are signed "Windows up and turn your aircon to recycle".

It might be different where you are but here, with all the old trucks running from the port it is atrocious.

Disclaimer: I am by no means stupid enough to not know that we need trucks, its the soot blowing old beasts I have a issue with.
I also acknowledge that transport only plays a minor part, but it could be much smaller.

The main issue is being able to afford the new "clean" trucks

100 × was wrong, 60 x ???, this report is better at explaining it, minus my over opinionated views, LOL >

They imposed some pretty hefty emission controls on truck here about 10 years ago so the really bad ones are all gone by now.

[churchx]

Tcoat: but aren't those old trucks now replaced with fad of "coal rollers" with modded tracks to spew black smoke near hybrids?