What is this called?

[Flat Black VW]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/louver/

group buy for someone who is trying to develop an aftermarket option that wont cost an arm and a leg. The more that join the more likely it is to happen.

[dnieves]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Which is probably why they died.

I remember all the otherwise cool cars that looked like shit because the louvers trapped all kind of crap against the windows. Your car would need a wash that much faster because of the gunk caught around the edges that would slide right off other cars. The pics on here never show you that part.

Wasn't it the 280ZX in the early eighties that had hinges at the top of the louvers? This way you can push them up out of the way so you can clean the window. I remember the old stamped aluminum louvers, if they got faded or some metal was peeking out a can of Krylon flat black fixed everything.

[ls1ac]

The ones on the MGB/GT are aluminum and have hinges at the top and twist locks on the bottom.

[Chad11491]

Originally Posted by dnieves

Wasn't it the 280ZX in the early eighties that had hinges at the top of the louvers? This way you can push them up out of the way so you can clean the window. I remember the old stamped aluminum louvers, if they got faded or some metal was peeking out a can of Krylon flat black fixed everything.

Yep. Mine had them on it. It had hinges at the top and two big thumb screws at the bottom you could twist off to raise it up and rest on the roof (with a towel, of course!) when you washed the car.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by RobertPaulson

seen them in person and they look pretty cool but hardly worth the cost.

You could say that for 90% of the all modifications.

[RobertPaulson]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

You could say that for 90% of the all modifications.

I would not say that, in fact i would say the exact opposite, 90% of the mods i have have totally been worth their cost.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by RobertPaulson

I would not say that, in fact i would say the exact opposite, 90% of the mods i have have totally been worth their cost.

this x2

well thought out modifications are worth their cost most of the time.. dunno where dude is getting that 90% isn't metric

[Tbird232ci]

Had a set on my Shelby Charger. Sold it about a month ago and miss it already.

[MokSpeed]

Originally Posted by Koa

well thought out modifications are worth their cost most of the time.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What you see as a modification worth it's price I could see as a complete waste of time and money.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by MokSpeed

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What you see as a modification worth it's price I could see as a complete waste of time and money.

Beauty is opinion... performance is empirical and results driven. There's no denying the performance increase of an all-else-equal system with an upgraded setrab 19 row oil cooler, say, and one without when it comes to oil temperatures on the track.

So while opinon does come into play when we talk about "worth it", performance helps align sentiments with reality.. therefore when @RobertPaulson and I call out your 90% mods could be viewed as not worth the cost, it's not because we doubt you have different tastes and goals, we doubt that most sensible enthusiasts, and certainly track or competitive people, commit to mods that 90% do not return favorable results for the costs incurred.

Then again it varies community to community. I see more good sense than bad here.. but on some of the other forums and communities (cough: budget ricers), not so much. For FR-S/BRZ owners I would lean towards 80-90% satisfaction rates based on this thread about mods that were not "worth it" and surveying members' journals. Then again, as people who commit to their decisions, there is the element of being overly enthusiastic or blindsided by our mods.. we want 'em to be worth it and the 'good review' syndrome does come into play, won't deny that one.

[MokSpeed]

Originally Posted by Koa

Beauty is opinion... performance is empirical and results driven. You're close but not exactly explaining the reality of the situation

Performance is empirical, but the need for it and exactly how much needed is just as opinionated as beauty.

For example, one could argue that those who bought a twin and dump tons of money into performance mods to achieve a desirable level of performance would be better off just buying a platform that meets those needs to start off with and save the time and money.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by MokSpeed

Performance is empirical, but the need for it and exactly how much needed is just as opinionated as beauty.

not true. With today's sensor and other measuring tech, gains are not so much ambiguous with a variety of systems. A good example of this is the refinement and use of shock dynos to accurately measure and portray the characteristics of dampeners. That combined with the driver's goals can more easily deliver a mod that is "worth it", in the eyes of the beholder, and one whose performance aligns with that mod.

Another good example is @eric6 's approach to stress testing the Velox LCAs for production. With 4g and 4.5g lateral loads on a proper rig, one can EASILY measure up the performance, cost associated with the product, and whether or not that is in line with the goals of the car. The team has shown there to be no failures with a 4.5g impact on an aluminum structure weighing in at 2.6lbs.. and are stress testing a 5-year track usage cycle right now.

That simply was not possible to the common small commercial market before the engineering field refined and widely adopted sensors into their design paradigm even 50 years ago.


I see you're held on tight to your point though so I respectfully leave you to this

[MokSpeed]

Originally Posted by Koa

I see you're held on tight to your point though so I respectfully leave you to this

My point is if an individual deems their purchase "worth it" then it's worth it. Based on your comments, you must have a finer appreciation for actual results produced that are backed by empirical evidence. This is how you deem the purchase of a modification "worth it". However, understand that the same sensation and satisfaction you get from seeing these goals come to fruition can be felt from a sensory stand point by another individual. Basically neither statement by @funwheeldrive and @RobertPaulson are at fault.

[RobertPaulson]

Originally Posted by MokSpeed

Performance is empirical, but the need for it and exactly how much needed is just as opinionated as beauty.

For example, one could argue that those who bought a twin and dump tons of money into performance mods to achieve a desirable level of performance would be better off just buying a platform that meets those needs to start off with and save the time and money.

perhaps the main draw of the twin was its ease to modify and make their own.

also I know I'm not speaking for everyone but I've spend a just north of 5000$ in modifications to my car and i'm fully bolted and tuned. admittedly i've spent far less than i could have because i've patiently waited for items to show up on the second hand market on here. I've been lucky that a lot of the parts i bought were never used and still at a great discount.

please find me a NEW car that has more than 200whp, handles better than the brz on wide sticky tires and a proper suspension all for the grand total of 33000$. I'm well aware that when i bought the brz for 28 i could find a more powerful capable used, but I wasn't looking to buy used.