Innovate/Spritex/Bullet... What I found searching the web.

[robispec]

Originally Posted by Calum

10% more what? Power or pressure?

Is the 80mm pulley the "stock" pulley? How much will the 75mm pulley cost? Will it include a tune? And finally how fast can this supercharger spin and how fast does the 75mm pulley make it spin at a 7500 rpm redline?

want to rethink the question?
gas car with 80 mm pulley makes X psi pressure
Gas car with 75mm pulley makes X+2 lbs
E85 car with 75mm pulley makes? (hint e-85 lets you run a BUNCH more timing...) power man power.
15,000 steady state marginally higher for short bursts...even the 75mm pulley has plenty of safety built in...(ie wont overspeed the blower unless you can get your car to run 8K sustained for your bonaville speed record ;-) )

[Sonolin]

Originally Posted by robispec

want to rethink the question?
gas car with 80 mm pulley makes X psi pressure
Gas car with 75mm pulley makes X+2 lbs
E85 car with 75mm pulley makes? (hint e-85 lets you run a BUNCH more timing...) power man power.
15,000 steady state marginally higher for short bursts...even the 75mm pulley has plenty of safety built in...(ie wont overspeed the blower unless you can get your car to run 8K sustained for your bonaville speed record ;-) )

Nice. So you're running 10psi + e85 then?

That's what I'm considering running if I end up buying this kit. Its definitely a hell of a bargain. v6 power, no extra weight, for only $3500 and no engine swap needed that's pretty cool.

[s2d4]

Interesting, going by your numbers, it looks like 70mm pulley if the crank pulley is 140mm will get 15000rpm at 7500rpm..

[robispec]

Originally Posted by Sonolin

Nice. So you're running 10psi + e85 then?

That's what I'm considering running if I end up buying this kit. Its definitely a hell of a bargain. v6 power, no extra weight, for only $3500 and no engine swap needed that's pretty cool.

no only 7 psi peak....

thats why I want to try the 70mm pulley.
the tq plateau with the 75mm pulley falls between 5k and 6500..so shifting @ 6500 is the fastest accelleration possible. the 70 mm pulley should move this both higher and extend it to about 6800.. time and testing will tell..

Robi

[Sonolin]

Originally Posted by robispec

no only 7 psi peak....

thats why I want to try the 70mm pulley.
the tq plateau with the 75mm pulley falls between 5k and 6500..so shifting @ 6500 is the fastest accelleration possible. the 70 mm pulley should move this both higher and extend it to about 6800.. time and testing will tell..

Robi

Nice! Yea if 70mm pushes the torque curve higher that definitely sounds optimal to me (for track use)!

Love how meaty the torque band is on this is too. If we can get peak torque just shy of redline (like the 6800 you mentioned) that should give you perfect torque from 5500+ which sounds pretty damn awesome.

[s2d4]

Not entirely sure what you mean by pushing the torque curve higher in the rpm..

Wouldn't it just add to torque everywhere?

[robispec]

tq here is part of the boost curve too so running the blower closer to the rated max will carry more air throughout the rev range because the ve of the engine stays the same the "extra" air raises the boost and carries it further up the rpm range.

I hope I just said that right!

Robi

[Calum]

Originally Posted by robispec

want to rethink the question?
gas car with 80 mm pulley makes X psi pressure
Gas car with 75mm pulley makes X+2 lbs
E85 car with 75mm pulley makes? (hint e-85 lets you run a BUNCH more timing...) power man power.
15,000 steady state marginally higher for short bursts...even the 75mm pulley has plenty of safety built in...(ie wont overspeed the blower unless you can get your car to run 8K sustained for your bonaville speed record ;-) )

You said you make 10% more, but you didn't define what you were referring to. If you are running a smaller pulley you are making more pressure because you're forcing more air into the engine. You should also be making more power with the smaller pulley by virtue of the fact that power is a function of how much air you can move through an engine. Due to the fact that you're also running E85 and a decent tuner should be able to get 10% more power with that alone, I find it hard to believe that you're only making 10% more with the smaller pulley and E85. So, from my perspective I don't know if a 9.37% difference in pulley size would relate to a 10% increase in pressure or a 10% increase in power.

I don't understand why should I rethink my question, it was decent question on a confusing post.

BTW, unless the power drops like a rock through air after the torque peak, shifting at red line will give the fastest acceleration times. More power = faster acceleration, unless your engine is making more horsepower after the shift then before, you should be staying in the gear as long as possible.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Calum

BTW, unless the power drops like a rock through air after the torque peak, shifting at red line will give the fastest acceleration times. More power = faster acceleration, unless your engine is making more horsepower after the shift then before, you should be staying in the gear as long as possible.

You want to shift at peak torque, in theory.

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

You want to shift at peak torque, in theory.

You want to think about that for a minute?

An AP1 S2000 makes peak torque at 7500rpm. If you shift that car at 7500 it's going to be SLOW. Even if you were to make the VTEC switch happen at 3k.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

You want to shift at peak torque, in theory.

Originally Posted by Sellout

You want to think about that for a minute?

An AP1 S2000 makes peak torque at 7500rpm. If you shift that car at 7500 it's going to be SLOW. Even if you were to make the VTEC switch happen at 3k.

this is dependent

1 on 4 cylinder engines, lets say peak tq is at 7500 and your redline is at 9k you need to be shifting at 8.8k-9k so you land before peak tq in the next gear so you essentially ride the tq hump. if you shift at pk tq and you have rpms to go you will land further away from peak tq in the next gear.

2 if you had any knowledge on cars that use valve lift, you would know lowering the cam lobe change point actually kills power up top and valve lift should only be lowered at maximum 1000-1200 rpms.

3 hp does mean something that a lot of people dont understand, tq may drop off but if you are still making hp the more revs you climb, you should shift later because of work over time.

4 tq is different in every gear, the amount of tq going to the wheels is going to be greater at the top of second gear than at peak tq in third gear even if the tq falls off 20 - 30 ft-lbs. thats just how power is translated to the ground through the transmission

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

2 if you had any knowledge on cars that use valve lift,

Oh god here we go...

You think you have some idea what I know and don't know based on a quick statement intended to prevent what I figured would be the obvious retort? I'm fully aware of what it takes to make changing the VTEC switch worthwhile, at what point you're wasting your time, how far down you can set it and what mods you need to make it work that low...

For the record, going any lower than 5600 or so on my AP2 would have been a complete waste since the factory cat would have caused a nasty torque dip. If you have a test pipe you can reduce the factory switchover all the way down into the mid-high 4s and make a better powerband than you had from the stock 6k switchover.

That kick you feel driving an S2000 is caused by the fact that you could already be benefiting from the larger lobes by the time it switches.

Furthermore, I mentioned 3k JUST BECAUSE it would take the switchover completely out of the scenario, making sure that shifting and falling down onto the small lobes wouldn't cause a loss of acceleration in my example. The point is that in the AP1 S2000, shifting at peak torque (which would still be at 7500rpm in my example) would only make you lose a race to someone shifting at 88-8900 in the same car.

Valve lift? You're making up terms...

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

You want to shift at peak torque, in theory.

You want to shift at the point where either:
1. Torque has dropped off to the point that the torque at the current engine speed multiplied by the current gear ratio drops below the torque at the engine speed you would be at if you shifted multiplied by the (lower) gear ratio

That is, let's say we have Torque (T) and gear ratio (R) and we're shifting from 2nd to 3rd. When T2*R2=T3*R3, shift. If you shift too soon, you're giving up mechanical advantage of being in the lower gear (higher ratio).

2. You hit the rev limiter and must shift to continue to accelerate.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by Sellout

Oh god here we go...

You think you have some idea what I know and don't know based on a quick statement intended to prevent what I figured would be the obvious retort? I'm fully aware of what it takes to make changing the VTEC switch worthwhile, at what point you're wasting your time, how far down you can set it and what mods you need to make it work that low...

For the record, going any lower than 5600 or so on my AP2 would have been a complete waste since the factory cat would have caused a nasty torque dip. If you have a test pipe you can reduce the factory switchover all the way down into the mid-high 4s and make a better powerband than you had from the stock 6k switchover.

That kick you feel driving an S2000 is caused by the fact that you could already be benefiting from the larger lobes by the time it switches.

Furthermore, I mentioned 3k JUST BECAUSE it would take the switchover completely out of the scenario, making sure that shifting and falling down onto the small lobes wouldn't cause a loss of acceleration in my example. The point is that in the AP1 S2000, shifting at peak torque (which would still be at 7500rpm in my example) would only make you lose a race to someone shifting at 88-8900 in the same car.

Valve lift? You're making up terms...

yeah and these guys made it up too...

VTEC (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control)
VVTL-i (Variable Valve Timing & Lift with intelligence)