Would I boost this car again if I had the chance?

[sachu]

nope. WOuldn't boost it again.

Stock header and stock exhuast with tune, add oil cooler and suspension. That would be it.

[Irace86.2.0]

If I could do it again then I would do a turbo. If I could do it again then I would do ITB with E85, headers and anorexic weightless modz. If I could do it again then I would do a gutted track build.

Right now I am superchargered, and I’m loving what I have, something that handles amazingly well with more than enough power for the streets. There are other configurations for the twins that would be equally gratifying, but I have zero regrets. The biggest trade off is total weight and front end weight, but that is marginal compared to the gains.

[GrabTheWheel]

I'd love to see a poll of people who regularly track their car boosted and how long their engines lasted. OP you are a lucky SOB to a a have your engine last that long. I think anything over 250 WHP and you're asking for trouble if you intend to do any REAL driving. I'm also pretty certain that peoples stock motors are lasting longer than "built FA20's" even at only 300 WHP. If I could go back in time I would've engine swapped A LONG time ago instead of wasting money on the FA20. If you're not happy with 200-250 WHP either engine swap or this is not the car for you.

[Cal3000]

Originally Posted by Jaden

A factory wrx is not a 300whp car it's a 265bhp car so about 210-220whp.it also weighs a ton more than a twin. Anyone who acts like a wrx is a huge power gain over a twin is on crack. A twin with a catless header and flex fuel is faster than a stock wrx.

Jaden

It's slightly faster with e85, but not by much. A stock wrx will walk away from a stock frs pretty easily.

[Cal3000]

Originally Posted by GrabTheWheel

I'd love to see a poll of people who regularly track their car boosted and how long their engines lasted. OP you are a lucky SOB to a a have your engine last that long. I think anything over 250 WHP and you're asking for trouble if you intend to do any REAL driving. I'm also pretty certain that peoples stock motors are lasting longer than "built FA20's" even at only 300 WHP. If I could go back in time I would've engine swapped A LONG time ago instead of wasting money on the FA20. If you're not happy with 200-250 WHP either engine swap or this is not the car for you.

I drove pretty hard on mines. I have the vortech kit. It didn't make to much torque. Just roughly +100wtq from stock. I don't think those torque numbers hurt the motor than much. I think the key to longevity is to keep the torque low. A lot of turbo kits making 300+whp will make 300+ wtq.

It's like the general rule with the evox is to never tune the torque over 400wtq since the rods are the first to go, but you can run up to 500whp safely all day if you are below 400wtq on completely stock internals.

[bmxr]

Originally Posted by Jaden

A factory wrx is not a 300whp car it's a 265bhp car so about 210-220whp.it also weighs a ton more than a twin. Anyone who acts like a wrx is a huge power gain over a twin is on crack. A twin with a catless header and flex fuel is faster than a stock wrx.

Jaden

You misunderstood what I wrote. I did not say a WRX is a 300 hp car. I was referring to the power levels of aftermarket FI builds I am reading about here. Intended as a separate point, I wrote “WRX style” turbo referring to a hypothetical factory fa20 turbo, not an actual WRX. I know how that car works well. I owned a 2015, and my son drives a 2018. That is the worst-tuned engine I’ve ever experienced. It’s truly awful. I don’t want that in my car, but in theory, it could be done properly.

Anyway, all I was really saying is that a sub-200 hp NA BRZ is plenty fun. FI would be fun too, but for the cost to do it right, I’d personally start with a different platform.

But for the record, stock v stock, a WRX will SMOKE a BRZ in just about any kind of race you could dream up. Track, stoplight to stoplight, roll race... it’s not close. 100 ft lbs is a lot, even with an extra 500ish pounds.

[Irace86.2.0]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkWyyY718AM[/ame]



This review is pretty spot on. FI gives the twins more of what the WRX has (usable power for other scenarios), while maintaining the benefit of being a light, great handling and low-seat-positioned vehicle (things that the WRX are not).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by GrabTheWheel

I'd love to see a poll of people who regularly track their car boosted and how long their engines lasted. OP you are a lucky SOB to a a have your engine last that long. I think anything over 250 WHP and you're asking for trouble if you intend to do any REAL driving. I'm also pretty certain that peoples stock motors are lasting longer than "built FA20's" even at only 300 WHP. If I could go back in time I would've engine swapped A LONG time ago instead of wasting money on the FA20. If you're not happy with 200-250 WHP either engine swap or this is not the car for you.

41 days and counting. I'm not quite at the 1 year mark since I've boosted.

It's not about how much power you make, as much as how well you support the power. Obviously if you make enough power, things will fail, but with the right support, mild boost is very sustainable.



That top line makes peak power at just 10.5 psi, and is with a stock exhaust and stock (catted) front pipe. Efficiency > Brute force.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

A factory wrx is not a 300whp car it's a 265bhp car so about 210-220whp.it also weighs a ton more than a twin. Anyone who acts like a wrx is a huge power gain over a twin is on crack. A twin with a catless header and flex fuel is faster than a stock wrx.

Jaden

Care to place a wager on that?

My daily driver is a wrx.

While the absolute power gain may not be big, the usable power difference is massive, and a stock wrx will walk away from any header/ethanol/tune FRS, no matter what header and tune it is.

To keep it apples to apples, since a base wrx is approximately the cost of a base brz, for the price of a header + flex + tune on a BRZ, you can have a 400whp WRX.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

This^^^ The real difference is how the powerband and gearing are sorted. The turbo SURGES IN and the AWD hook so it feels like you're a rocket. Exhaust noise, the RPMs rising rapidly and other sensory things contribute to this feeling as well. It's all trickery, I tell you!!!!!

A modern wrx spools faster than any turbo twin. On a 6th gear pull, I can have full boost at 2200 RPM.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by bmxr

You misunderstood what I wrote. I did not say a WRX is a 300 hp car. I was referring to the power levels of aftermarket FI builds I am reading about here. Intended as a separate point, I wrote “WRX style” turbo referring to a hypothetical factory fa20 turbo, not an actual WRX. I know how that car works well. I owned a 2015, and my son drives a 2018. That is the worst-tuned engine I’ve ever experienced. It’s truly awful. I don’t want that in my car, but in theory, it could be done properly.

Anyway, all I was really saying is that a sub-200 hp NA BRZ is plenty fun. FI would be fun too, but for the cost to do it right, I’d personally start with a different platform.

But for the record, stock v stock, a WRX will SMOKE a BRZ in just about any kind of race you could dream up. Track, stoplight to stoplight, roll race... it’s not close. 100 ft lbs is a lot, even with an extra 500ish pounds.

I think it would depend on the level of modification on both cars, but in roughly apples to apples levels of modification, the WRX will win any acceleration metric, while the BRZ takes any cornering type of metric. In terms of actual on-track performance, it's actually very, very close, with the WRX having an exponentially lower skill floor.

The bigger issue, is that the WRX will overheat in stock or bolt-on form, while the BRZ will just cook it's oil.

[86MLR]

You cannot compare a turbo 4 door AWD glorified grocery getter to a small NA RWD.

I sold a 2015 STI (glorified grocery getter with a good box, extra 0.5l and some badges) and grabbed a 2017 86, apples and oranges.

Yes, the WRX has a 2.0 whilst the STI has the 2.5, but, the FA20t isn't much different to the EJ25t performance wise, I test drove both, the WRX was actually more responsive than the STI off the line, I only got the STI because I always wanted one.

As for over heating, my STI only ever had high oil temp issues when I went I added some bolt ons and a tune, and only when pushed hard at the track, never on the street, which was easily and cheaply fixed with a oil cooler.

An oil cooler is required if you track or charge a 86 anyway.

The main difference I found, and the reason for the swap, was when I was having "fun" in the STI, I was at warp speed (the only handling mods were tyres and some adjustable sway bars, night and day difference to handling).

The 86 is fun reving the guts out of it getting up to the speed limit and wringing its neck in the twisties, my oil temps do get up to 120°c in heavy traffic, the STI never did though.

So, in closing, if you need a AWD 4 door car with some performance you cannot go wrong with a WRX, you can fit the missus and kids with all the superfluous stuff that involves and go to the shops, or/and, put on some roof racks and load up the boards and fishing rods and take the family basically anywhere, or hit the track.

But, If you want a RWD car that can be fun to drive around the twisties, and only big enough to take the missus away for a weekend, minus the kids, the 86 is perfect.

My kids have their own cars now so I have no need for 4 door, I now have a need for a 4 cyl, RWD car that I can relive my youth by being the oldest "hoonigan" around, a screaming RWD NA with exhaust and tune fits that bill perfectly, for now....

I did look into charging mine, but to be reliable I didn't find it financially viable.

I pissed my money away in my youth spending tens of thousands on builds, to lose it all on resale, if the engine and drivetrain was stronger dropping 10k wouldn't bother me, but dropping 10k and waiting for it to break........ been there done that.

If they put a FA20t into the 86 at the factory, and upgraded the gearbox and other parts of the drivetrain I would be first in line to get one, my daughter wants my current 86 anyway, that would make at least 1 of the women in the house happy, for a while anyway, and me, the happiest hoonigan around.

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

A modern wrx spools faster than any turbo twin. On a 6th gear pull, I can have full boost at 2200 RPM.

I can attest, the fa20dit's setup creates a much more linear feeling. I was referencing the EJ line of WRX.

[wbradley]

Not sure I would do it again as I am still trying to amortize the cost of doing it once by keeping this car long term. If it isn't winter driven and the maintenance is performed when needed I see no reason this wouldn't still be a cool car ten years from now. I have around 65300 km (34K miles) on it now.

On the other hand my other vehicle (2018 STI) is 99% stock and isn't as much fun from a hands -on perspective.

I might want to try a sports car that is already fully prepped to my expectations from the factory next time simply due to reliability. For me it was about the experience. But since I am not a mechanic, there is a time factor involved that I don't always have available to figure things out.

In summation, glad I did it, not sure I could see myself doing it again in my present situation